Effects of tap water on Nitrifying during Rip-Clean method: Experiment

[vetteguy53081]

My city alone employs 3 water treatment plants. 1 lime softening and 2 ro.

Mine has 4 but water is good

 

[Lasse]

@Garf you have PM

@MnFish1 chime in - its youre specials - test design

after this misaligned test is complete, nobody here is going to begin a rinseless tank transfer thread so how does this post help anyone? those who don't assertively take on build jobs live time aren't going to all of a sudden become assertive, they're still evaluating far from the sidelines.

That´s means that you already know the outcome ?

I do not know and it should be good to see - maybe i have to change my mind ?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

I know it by having that kit studied for eight pages as misreading where reef pics show a totally normal reef.

non seneye study not from Dan or Taricha? no way, that's everyone's false stall cycle claim. We have way too many examples of counter study for anyone from this crowd to validate, this is the coat tails group. not the actual does the jobs group, this is sideline evals only.

there was a neat way I would have arranged this test differently, using those materials above however and it specifically accounts for that test's ability to be blurred by profound initial dosing.

but you guys aren't interested in my tank, just like the interest in taking on live time jobs is also very very one-sided.

 

[Little c big D]

I know it by having that kit studied for eight pages as misreading where reef pics show a totally normal reef.

Can I get the reccomended amount of rock for a rip clean?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Just here for the comments

 

[Coxey81]

after this misaligned test is complete, nobody here is going to begin a rinseless tank transfer thread so how does this post help anyone? those who don't assertively take on build jobs live time aren't going to all of a sudden become assertive, they're still evaluating far from the sidelines.

lets say (surprisingly) this test deems the nitrification to be totally killed

how do you apply that to the constant stream of move jobs and tank upgrades needed? there will be silence, gaps where nobody actually does any work with the findings

and filling those gaps for inspection...rip cleaning.

this thread means something only if someone invents a better way to handle tank moves, upgrades and invasion fixes all by no rinsing, or rinsing a different way other than tap (and still getting the cleanliness required for fifty pages of skip cycles with no bottle bac added)

if someone tries to imply the inverse of this test to real world jobs, I'll sub to that to see how that turns out.

You are getting extremely defensive about this. I actually did this because I believe you and wanted to help prove you are right. I don't believe rinsing rock in tap water is going to kill enough bacteria to uncycle a tank.

But you have to provide people some proof in the forms of test performed. I'm doing this for myself and everyone can take the results as they wish.

Plus, I plan on instant cycling my QT with biomedia from my sump for adding new fish in the future and I want some practice and reassurance it will work when the time comes. Especially since I never went through the cycle process.

 

[brandon429]

you have set up a test that does not mimic what we do, I take it as a slight from someone I helped, directly saved your animals by applying surface area science and rip cleaning access which I'm claiming directly is underplayed here by 90%. by not consulting me on baseline proofing the kit for pic #1 on clean water, or how much ammonia to add to even check the kit's ability to register half a ppm accurately, you align against rip cleans and lead the crowd to support it


all the while, no other methods exist, there's literally not going to be one single job linked here showing other means to handle these public tanks as they present differently, and withhold certain information job to job

the rinsing accounts for all that variation that one loose test cannot ever measure. the tap water is because using salt, they'll run out too soon and incomplete rinses are the true danger.

 

[Garf]

@Garf you have PM

@MnFish1 chime in - its youre specials - test design


That´s means that you already know the outcome ?

I do not know and it should be good to see - maybe i have to change my mind ?

Sincerely Lasse

Received, loud and clear

 

[Garf]

You are getting extremely defensive about this. I actually did this because I believe you and wanted to help prove you are right. I don't believe rinsing rock in tap water is going to kill enough bacteria to uncycle a tank.

But you have to provide people some proof in the forms of test performed. I'm doing this for myself and everyone can take the results as they wish.

Plus, I plan on instant cycling my QT with biomedia from my sump for adding new fish in the future and I want some practice and reassurance it will work when the time comes. Especially since I never went through the cycle process.

The search for truth is all most of us want

 

[Rmckoy]

I disagree on the validity of the test.

to align with actual rip cleans, first find and post one that used that little live rock. Show from our rip clean threads the direct example.

All rip cleans get five times that amount of surface area in the post set up, a rock wall right in the center.

you played down surface area entirely too much.


second issue, this isn’t a seneye experiment. It’s using the #2 misreading kit online that we literally have eight pages of ammonia misreads on

if the surface area and the test kit is realigned, I’ll think it’s a valid study.


third, the animals kept alive for you using updated cycling science are proof above findings on that one ammonia kit.


fourth

the dose of ammonia is entirely too much, has no basis to what tanks see after re assembly after a rip clean.

Bottom line …

The bacteria in saltwater tanks is not comparable with or the same bacteria in freshwater setups .
If scrubbing the rocks in freshwater question #1 will freshwater kill bacteria ?
#2 when doing any kind of rip clean , are we scrubbing everything to leaving some untouched ( enough bacteria to bounce back )

I appreciate this test as it would break through a lot of information .
hopefully not only prove to us who are stuck in the old ways , but to help anyone new to the hobby as well

 

[Little c big D]

you have set up a test that does not mimic what we do, I take it as a slight from someone I helped, directly saved your animals by applying surface area science which I'm claiming directly is underplayed here by 90%. by not consulting me on baseline proofing the kit for pic #1 on clean water, or how much ammonia to add to even check the kit's ability to register half a ppm accurately, you align against rip cleans and lead the crowd to support it


all the while, no other methods exist, there's literally not going to be one single job linked here showing other means to handle these public tanks as they present differently, and withhold certain information job to job

the rinsing accounts for all that variation that one loose test cannot ever measure. the tap water is because using salt, they'll run out too soon and incomplete rinses are the true danger.

He is 90% below the reccomended amount of rock? So....10 lbs per gallon is your reccomended amount of rock? Straight answer on how much rock is all I'm asking. Not even a troll but I cant understand your parameters or what op is doing wrong if you're not clear.

 

[brandon429]

You are evaluating a process where you've never studied any aspect of it, you've never logged moves done completely in other people's reef, how would be answering that for you make up for your experience gap in evaluation?

its a slippery slope, for me. nothing at the end of it, we do the jobs you guys evaluate them, that's the deal.

this is a coat tails thread only. elsewhere, new job outcomes are coming. My rip clean runners are studying this thread and its assertions and findings too so we can compare to their results, its not just the benchwarmers studying the players with discerning eyes.

I could link for us seneye counter studies that already measure this, but Lasse would type that seneye isn't right, and you'd all just agree lol. this is for coat tailing, strictly.

 

[happyhourhero]

Post the pounds

 

[MnFish1]

Avoid Tap if at all possible. Not all water treatment plants are the same. They don’t use the same chemicals to treat water. They basically do have the same procedures though. There are several compounds that are used. In these compounds are heavy metals, ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, silicates, fluoride, Chlorine and various other compounds. Don’t get me wrong, these are great for us humans as far as water treatment but they are not good for our Saltwater tanks especially our saltwater reef tanks. Ammonia, nitrates and phosphates are also excessive nutrients that help to fuel algae issues in the tank. We all know what ammonia will do to fish in our saltwater tanks. Many a times folks will make their own partial water change water and are wandering where these compounds are coming from when all the time they were adding them themselves by using tap water in their partial water changes. Silicates are famous for fueling diatoms in the saltwater tank.
There are several items on the market that claim to help get rid of these compounds in our tap water. They really don’t get rid of them but just bind them so they are not as lethal as they were. They are still there. Things like the heavy metals are always there and we then wonder why the ICP test shows metals. In the beginning there is not much harm but as the tank gets older the tank accumulates more and more of these harmful compounds until finally the tank crashes and then the next thing you know someone is posting a thread asking " why is my reef dead" .
The best bet is to get an RO/DI unit. These units can filter out 99 -100% on these compounds. They contain pre filter units and then the water goes through a reverse osmosis membrane and then though a deionized unit. There are other types of water like RO and distilled that are not as effective as an RO/DI but still better than using tap water.
I had a 360g in which I used my well water with the belief that a whole house and water softener was adequate. The tank worked but I lost things here and there and since using RODI - I see the B I G difference.

He is using tap water on purpose - because in another thread thats what the poster did. (He cleaned his rock in hot tap water - then let it dry overnight and cleaned his sand - then replaced everything - and lo and behold, his fish were fine). I agree with you - that there are some issues I might change in the experiment which I'll answer later (becasue I saw someone asked)

 

[MnFish1]

only when they want to move tanks home to home for fifty pages with no loss.


you didn't have a better way we could see, for example. that was a hollow sentiment. hollow means you won't be posting any links that show tank moves, tank upgrades for pages and years that omit sandbed rinsing. accepting proof links from any forum, any era, any source. post anything you can find to show counter options for the reasons people use rip cleans. I have to click show hidden content to read 9/10 posts on this thread, now that's a supporting crowd for sure. this experiment is so valid, so rooted in prior procedure, impressed.

meanwhile, where actual jobs are needing done and people's animals are on the line, rip cleaning persists as the only linkable example you or peers here can source.


has anyone here / critics ever guided let's say a mere ten tank as upgrades/home moves? only ten

post a few of those jobs you did for inspection.

Can you make at least the small effort to use the QUOTE button - so the other 20 people here know what you're referring to?

 

[Little c big D]

You are evaluating process where you've never studied any aspect of it, you've never logged moves done completely in other people's reef, how would be answering that for you make up for your experience gap in evaluation?

this is a coat tails thread, ride em. elsewhere, new job outcomes are coming.

This is rediculous. You claim your way is the way but can't answer a simple question as to why 4 lbs in 4 gallons is not enough nor can you tell me how much should be there. I can't learn if your response is satire. I've never claimed to know the process nor acted like you were wrong. I am genuinely asking for perspective on your point of view.

 

[brandon429]

there's no value in me answering you, I'm dealing with skeptics here who don't have any stake in the game, so if you're unconvinced that's ok I'm ok with that, nothing that happens on the sidelines affects our work threads.

MN you know for a fact my rip clean threads are not examples of people heating and drying their rocks lol. you guys, this is a desperate one.

the findings of this quorum will impact rip cleaning 0%

and we will never, ever, never, get another method posted by members here on alternate modes to rip cleaning, because you can't do that from the sidelines it takes a risk and follow up posting to hone the craft. I know fully though that currently it seems you have the full picture, I'm aware.

 

[Little c big D]

there's no value in me answering you, I'm dealing with skeptics here who don't have any stake in the game, so if you're unconvinced that's ok I'm ok with that, nothing that happens on the sidelines affects our work threads.

MN you know for a fact my rip clean threads are not examples of people heating and drying their rocks lol. you guys, this is a desperate one.

the findings of this quorum will impact rip cleaning 0%

and we will never, ever, never, get another method posted by members here on alternate modes to rip cleaning, because you can't do that from the sidelines it takes a risk and follow up posting to hone the craft.

So you will promote this but refuse to answer this simple question. Why post in this thread? I was never a skeptic... I ask for knowledge and you refuse it. You really are a troll, trolling boards telling everyone they're wrong but can't tell me how much rock is needed?

The value is me understanding. That's the "value in answering"

 

[happyhourhero]

Isn’t rip cleaning just the most drastic restart to battling algae and aren’t there thousands of people who beat algae using means that doesn’t include completely breaking down?

 

[Lasse]

Now somebody will set their porridge in the wrong throat or fall down from the chair. I think then OP do the second test after cleaning with tap water - it will be exactly the same result (or better) as he get with the first test - at least if he does not use hot water. i´ll think that Brandon have nothing to fear in this case. I´m not sure with the heat - therefore a suggestion - @Coxey81 do the second test with normal tap water and a third with hot tap water

What I think of the first result - let us see tomorrow after OP done its test - Garf have my forecast,

Sincerely Lasse