Effects of tap water on Nitrifying during Rip-Clean method: Experiment

[Rmckoy]

IMO, if doing so doing so in combination with a brushing...

You are looking at a 55 to 90% loss in nitrification ability in the following 24 hours for sure.

That’s it !!!
test complete !!!!
Next ….
someone arguing the facts of this test should follow up with another test with similar setup , parameters .

I believe I might have been correct that freshwater does effect and kill nitrifying bacteria .

 

[Lasse]

I might have been correct that freshwater does effect and kill nitrifying bacteria

Might - maybe/maybe not true. We know now that tap water + scrubbing probably affect the carrying capacity but we do not know anything about which variable (fresh water or scrubbing) cause it. It can be either one, both or in a combination

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Coxey81]

IMO - not a clear yes or no answer - it could be both yes, no and the combination of brushing and fresh water. I hope that @MnFish1 design his trial in a way that we can sort this out.

Step 1 - make sure that you have a certain carrying capacity - like @Coxey81 did in the first step. After this do at least 4 different scenario.
a) soak in freshwater fo some minutes or just rinse it of in water from the tap
b) soak in freshwater fo some minutes or just rinse it of in water from the tap and the samet time - brusch the stones
c) as a but in newly mixed saltwater
d) C + brushing

Sincerely Lasse

Fwiw, I felt my rinse was pretty equivalent to a soak.

Before the test I felt like rinsing would get mostly the outside of the rocks only.

While performing, I felt like the water was penatrating the rocks in the same manner a soak would. Especially considering the duration and porosity of the rocks.

I'm not sure a rinse is much different than a soak... in fact I would say it is not from my experience.

 

[Lasse]

Did you brush the stones or just flushed the stones with tap water?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sixty_reefer]

IMO - not a clear yes or no answer - it could be both yes, no and the combination of brushing and fresh water. I hope that @MnFish1 design his trial in a way that we can sort this out.

Step 1 - make sure that you have a certain carrying capacity - like @Coxey81 did in the first step. After this do at least 4 different scenario.
a) soak in freshwater fo some minutes or just rinse it of in water from the tap
b) soak in freshwater fo some minutes or just rinse it of in water from the tap and the samet time - brusch the stones
c) as a but in newly mixed saltwater
d) C + brushing

Sincerely Lasse

I agree that test a would be the most precise way to tell us that if any bacteria has im fact been killed, as long as the tank water stays in.

 

[Coxey81]

Did you brush the stones or just flushed the stones with tap water?

Sincerely Lasse

Brushed them before ever rinsing with soft bristle brush. Enough to remove pineapple sponges. They were kept in tank water in between brushing them.

Then once all were brushed I rinsed them with sink sprayer and placed in the tank with new water.

 

[revhtree]

Hello everyone! I love your passion, I really do, but calling each other out and addressing others personally in a negative connotation has got to stop please. I read back a few pages where some reports were made and I removed over a dozen posts. If there are more that needs to go please report it. Other than that please be cool so we don’t have to remove anyone from this thread. Thanks.

 

[sixty_reefer]

@Lasse @MnFish1 @Coxey81 probably unrelated but still on the subject.
I’ve noticed this morning the start of what it seems to be Cyanobacteria surrounding two areas were the amphipods have perish. The cyano seems to be starting from the amphipod and spreading out words. Now I never had Cyanobacteria before and it seems to me that this could support other theories were many claim that cyano is caused by over feeding. What’s the thought on it?

 

[Coxey81]

@Lasse @MnFish1 @Coxey81 probably unrelated but still on the subject.
I’ve noticed this morning the start of what it seems to be Cyanobacteria surrounding two areas were the amphipods have perish. The cyano seems to be starting from the amphipod and spreading out words. Now I never had Cyanobacteria before and it seems to me that this could support other theories were many claim that cyano is caused by over feeding. What’s the thought on it?

Can't say.. I don't know much about cyano.

 

[Coxey81]

Hello everyone! I love your passion, I really do, but calling each other out and addressing others personally in a negative connotation has got to stop please. I read back a few pages where some reports were made and I removed over a dozen posts. If there are more that needs to go please report it. Other than that please be cool so we don’t have to remove anyone from this thread. Thanks.

I see that many of my posts were the ones removed.

Sorry for calling some people out, but nothing I said was inaccurate.

Brandon has been rude, insulting, and degrading to several posters in this thread.

 

[revhtree]

I see that many of my posts were the ones removed.

Sorry for calling some people out, but nothing I said was inaccurate.

Brandon has been rude, insulting, and degrading to several posters in this thread.

Hello!

I basically removed a whole chain of posts from where a report came in. I also removed 3 posts that were reported by you. Honestly I’m not singling anyone out, just trying to keep the peace. If you’ll report any other posts that need to be addressed then we will take a look. This thread is so long and we don’t and can’t see everything.

Thanks.

 

[Coxey81]

Hello!

I basically removed a whole chain of posts from where a report came in. I also removed 3 posts that were reported by you. Honestly I’m not singling anyone out, just trying to keep the peace. If you’ll report any other posts that need to be addressed then we will take a look. This thread is so long and we don’t and can’t see everything.

Thanks.

Completely understand.

Just wanted you to know that he earned some of my recent comments due to his previous ones.

 

[MnFish1]

That’s it !!!
test complete !!!!
Next ….
someone arguing the facts of this test should follow up with another test with similar setup , parameters .

I believe I might have been correct that freshwater does effect and kill nitrifying bacteria .

You're right you might have been. I plan to collect the 'stuff' - already have the rocks - to do tests which SHOULD mimic @Coxey81's tests (i.e. I have rocks in my sump that are at least 5 years old - though they are a small percentage of the total rock in the tank). Most things will be similar if not the same - except:

1. Will use 2 liquid tests (One an api)
2. Will add a saltwater solution with 2 PPM ammonia at the start of each test.
3. Will use more gentle types of 'rinse and scrub' first and extend onto more 'aggressive'

As I said will be out of town this weekend - so it will start next week - so anyone with comments feel free to make them.

As to whether its 'proven' that freshwater does affect and kill nitrifying bacteria - IMHO - no. It clearly affects them - not clear that they are dead. they could have been scrubbed away. But its an interesting discussion

 

[MnFish1]

@Coxey81 @sixty_reefer Thanks for taking the time and effort to do all of this work!!

 

[Coxey81]

You're right you might have been. I plan to collect the 'stuff' - already have the rocks - to do tests which SHOULD mimic @Coxey81's tests (i.e. I have rocks in my sump that are at least 5 years old - though they are a small percentage of the total rock in the tank). Most things will be similar if not the same - except:

1. Will use 2 liquid tests (One an api)
2. Will add a saltwater solution with 2 PPM ammonia at the start of each test.
3. Will use more gentle types of 'rinse and scrub' first and extend onto more 'aggressive'

As I said will be out of town this weekend - so it will start next week - so anyone with comments feel free to make them.

As to whether its 'proven' that freshwater does affect and kill nitrifying bacteria - IMHO - no. It clearly affects them - not clear that they are dead. they could have been scrubbed away. But its an interesting discussion

I'm very interested to see your results.

Especially since your rocks will be from the sump and mimmick mine in the fact they aren't the only rocks in the tank and they won't have alot of exterior growth on them.

Although I'm interested in the tap water effects, I would really like to learn more about the bacteria nitirtifying ability of rocks in respects to the their percentage compared to other rocks in the tank... along with bioload if the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Brushed them before ever rinsing with soft bristle brush. Enough to remove pineapple sponges. They were kept in tank water in between brushing them.

Then once all were brushed I rinsed them with sink sprayer and placed in the tank with new water.

Sorry, I cannot recall what type of tap water was used? Might it have antimicrobial agents in it like chlorine or chloramine? Or is it well water?

The presence or absence of these agents will relate to the conclusion rmckoy made above about freshwater killing some of the bacteria. If there was any antimicrobial in it, then freshwater may not be the actual problem, but rather the antimicrobial itself.

 

[MnFish1]

You're right you might have been. I plan to collect the 'stuff' - already have the rocks - to do tests which SHOULD mimic @Coxey81's tests (i.e. I have rocks in my sump that are at least 5 years old - though they are a small percentage of the total rock in the tank). Most things will be similar if not the same - except:

1. Will use 2 liquid tests (One an api)
2. Will add a saltwater solution with 2 PPM ammonia at the start of each test.
3. Will use more gentle types of 'rinse and scrub' first and extend onto more 'aggressive'

As I said will be out of town this weekend - so it will start next week - so anyone with comments feel free to make them.

As to whether its 'proven' that freshwater does affect and kill nitrifying bacteria - IMHO - no. It clearly affects them - not clear that they are dead. they could have been scrubbed away. But its an interesting discussion

PS - so - even though the rocks have been in the tank for multiple years - my strong guess is that they are not going to be able to process all a full amount (2 ppm) ammonia on day 1. That it will need to build up.

here are a couple questions though - up front:

1. Use rock from the tank (which Is lit about 12 hours/day) or Use the rock from the sump - which is basically always in the 'dark'
2. Here is another Step 1, 2, and 3

Step 0. Baseline measurements from the tank (No2, No3, ammonia, PO4, temp, Specific Gravity, pH)
Step 1a. Day 0 - add New Saltwater, Rock (1 lb/gallon) powerhead for flow, Same temp and lighting as the tank. Day 1- add .25 ppm ammonia Day 2 - add .5 ppm ammonia Day 3 add 1 ppm Ammonia Day 4 add 1 ppm ammonia. Determine how quickly the ammonia rises (or is processed). Perform the measurements - same as step 0 - each day. Wait until all ammonia is processed to 0. Hopefully by day 5.
Step 2 (Same as old step 1) Add 2 ppm ammonia with fresh water and keep repeating this until 2 ppm is processed in about 24 hours.

Step 3 (Same as old Step 2) - same as before - same measurements

Some questions - should phosphate be added if at a certain level?
Should pH be adjusted?

@Coxey81 as Randy asked - did you ever check what your water company uses for disinfection - if any.
@sixty_reefer do you have any disinfectant in your water - OR - do you have any RODI filtration, etc - after water comes out of your tap

 

[Coxey81]

Sorry, I cannot recall what type of tap water was used? Might it have antimicrobial agents in it like chlorine or chloramine? Or is it well water?

The presence or absence of these agents will relate to the conclusion rmckoy made above about freshwater killing some of the bacteria. If there was any antimicrobial in it, then freshwater may not be the actual problem, but rather the antimicrobial itself.

I'm not sure, but my water company provides a pretty detailed water report and I will try to get a copy soon.

 

[sixty_reefer]

PS - so - even though the rocks have been in the tank for multiple years - my strong guess is that they are not going to be able to process all a full amount (2 ppm) ammonia on day 1. That it will need to build up.

here are a couple questions though - up front:

1. Use rock from the tank (which Is lit about 12 hours/day) or Use the rock from the sump - which is basically always in the 'dark'
2. Here is another Step 1, 2, and 3

Step 0. Baseline measurements from the tank (No2, No3, ammonia, PO4, temp, Specific Gravity, pH)
Step 1a. Day 0 - add New Saltwater, Rock (1 lb/gallon) powerhead for flow, Same temp and lighting as the tank. Day 1- add .25 ppm ammonia Day 2 - add .5 ppm ammonia Day 3 add 1 ppm Ammonia Day 4 add 1 ppm ammonia. Determine how quickly the ammonia rises (or is processed). Perform the measurements - same as step 0 - each day. Wait until all ammonia is processed to 0. Hopefully by day 5.
Step 2 (Same as old step 1) Add 2 ppm ammonia with fresh water and keep repeating this until 2 ppm is processed in about 24 hours.

Step 3 (Same as old Step 2) - same as before - same measurements

Some questions - should phosphate be added if at a certain level?
Should pH be adjusted?

@Coxey81 as Randy asked - did you ever check what your water company uses for disinfection - if any.
@sixty_reefer do you have any disinfectant in your water - OR - do you have any RODI filtration, etc - after water comes out of your tap

Is your rock made made? Or the good stuff? I’m the Uk chlorine is used in our tap water, in my region the TDS goes around 50 to 80

 

[Coxey81]

Is your rock made made? Or the good stuff? I’m the Uk chlorine is used in our tap water, in my region the TDS goes around 50 to 80

My incoming tds is between 90 and 100.