Flukes?

[Reef keeper]

Hello all,

I think I have flukes but am not entirely sure. Looking to get some more input.
Fish are swimming into the powerhead.
Has gotten a lot worse in the last couple days.

nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
Phosphate 0
Temp 78-79
Ph fluctuates from low 7.9-8.1

looks like a worm in the very center of the eye?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Neobenedenia are called the "eye fluke", it infects the whole fish, but can be seen in fish as cloudy eyes Y0our fish could have this..

Hyposalinity for 35 days is the best treatment, but of course, cannot be done in tanks with invertebrates.

The second best treatment is Prazipro, dosed 3x, 8 days apart. This can be done with invertebrates present. Add extra aeration, and run your skimmer, but do not collect anything in the cup during the treatment. Remove carbon filtration. Turn off any UV. Dose the tank according to the label directions. After 8 days, change 25% of the water and dose a again. Repeat a third time.

If you post a video of the fish, I might be able to confirm the diagnosis for you.

Jay

 

[Reef keeper]

here you go! Thanks so much! Let me know if that is adequate. It unfortunately is in DT so I was going to prazipro every 3 days for 9 days (25% water change after every 3 days) and feeding frozen lrs and pe mysis with vitachem/Selcon soaked food to try and keep them as fat as possible. Is this a good regiment? It seems to be pretty bad so I wasn’t sure if doing the 3 day doses is needed because I don’t know if they would make it 8 days.

 

[Reef keeper]

See if it works now

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I first thought that the white spots on the purple tang were just air bubbles. In the video though, they look more like ich. However, the number of spots is low and that does not line up with how poorly the fish are acting...something else is going on.

The absolute best thing would be to treat all of the fish with hyposalinity (1.009) for 35 days - that will resolve Neobendenia flukes, as well as ich. Of course, you can't do that if there are invertebrates in the tank.

If you go with Prazi, and the fish *do* have ich, that will be unresolved, and that will be a major issue.

I know the Prazipro bottle says space it out at three days, but that isn't correct. You need to space it out for 8 days to ensure you have a better chance of catching unhatched eggs.

Jay

 

[Reef keeper]

 

[Reef keeper]

They seemed to be sand, these pics it looks like an actual worm hanging on also where those spots where.

For the prazipro can we do multiple doses 3 days apart for 4-5 treatments to make sure to get all the eggs?

 

[dwest]

They seemed to be sand, these pics it looks like an actual worm hanging on also where those spots where.

For the prazipro can we do multiple doses 3 days apart for 4-5 treatments to make sure to get all the eggs?

I‘m not trying to be rude but why not just do what the expert says to do? Jay is the expert of experts here.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

They seemed to be sand, these pics it looks like an actual worm hanging on also where those spots where.

For the prazipro can we do multiple doses 3 days apart for 4-5 treatments to make sure to get all the eggs?

The unhatched Neobendenia eggs can last ~5 days, and then they don't start laying their own eggs until they've grown a bit (10 days to maturity in one paper). That's why I settled on the 8 day interval. You can certainly try dosing on a shorter interval, but don't go any closer than five days, and be aware that the continued treatment needs to extend at least 21 days (3x at 8 days gets you there, at 3 days, you'd need to treat 7x). The risk in repeating Prazi treatments is this: with each application you make, heterotrophic bacteria grows in the tank that feed on the prazi. After a number of treatments, the bacteria population is so great that it consumes the prazi before it has a chance to work. This results in people saying there are "prazi resistant flukes". Dosing a tank more than 5x increases the risk that the bacteria will be a problem.

In the end though, I've had 100% success using hyposalinity, and only about 50 to 75% long term success using Prazi.

Jay

 

[Reef keeper]

I‘m not trying to be rude but why not just do what the expert says to do? Jay is the expert of experts here.

I was trying to ask why it is better to do the treatment this way (Which I poorly worded). Just out of wanting to know more, I like the explanation of why this is better. Was not trying to question his expertise, for my own knowledge I was trying to learn more.

 

[Reef keeper]

The unhatched Neobendenia eggs can last ~5 days, and then they don't start laying their own eggs until they've grown a bit (10 days to maturity in one paper). That's why I settled on the 8 day interval. You can certainly try dosing on a shorter interval, but don't go any closer than five days, and be aware that the continued treatment needs to extend at least 21 days (3x at 8 days gets you there, at 3 days, you'd need to treat 7x). The risk in repeating Prazi treatments is this: with each application you make, heterotrophic bacteria grows in the tank that feed on the prazi. After a number of treatments, the bacteria population is so great that it consumes the prazi before it has a chance to work. This results in people saying there are "prazi resistant flukes". Dosing a tank more than 5x increases the risk that the bacteria will be a problem.

In the end though, I've had 100% success using hyposalinity, and only about 50 to 75% long term success using Prazi.

Jay

Okay awesome, Thanks for explaining that!! So that could lead to bacteria infections Im assuming?

I tried pulling them out and they are still very spunky, Really just trying to avoid taking all the rock out but if its what has to happen then so be it.

So going forward I treat the tank on that schedule, can the flukes pop back up in the future from like dormant eggs?

Is it good to treat with something like Artemis as a preventative?

It also looked like the purple had a bulging eye today, they seem like they are having trouble seeing but are still eating very well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Okay awesome, Thanks for explaining that!! So that could lead to bacteria infections Im assuming?

I tried pulling them out and they are still very spunky, Really just trying to avoid taking all the rock out but if its what has to happen then so be it.

So going forward I treat the tank on that schedule, can the flukes pop back up in the future from like dormant eggs?

Is it good to treat with something like Artemis as a preventative?

It also looked like the purple had a bulging eye today, they seem like they are having trouble seeing but are still eating very well.

Fluke infections can lead to secondary bacterial infections. Those are best treated with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic like Neoplex or Kanaplex. I don’t use herbal products as they do not have solid proof when used in aquariums, they are more like tonics.
Jay

 

[Reef keeper]

Fluke infections can lead to secondary bacterial infections. Those are best treated with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic like Neoplex or Kanaplex. I don’t use herbal products as they do not have solid proof when used in aquariums, they are more like tonics.
Jay

Gotcha, will soaking their food with kanaplex help any per eye infections or is that going to be ineffective?
is it possible for the site to be regained or will they have issues with this for the remainder of their life?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Gotcha, will soaking their food with kanaplex help any per eye infections or is that going to be ineffective?
is it possible for the site to be regained or will they have issues with this for the remainder of their life?

Soaking foods in medication simply doesn't work because it rinses off as fast as it soaked in and you have no idea as to the dose. You can dose oral meds in gelatin diet at prescribed doses - for Kanamycin, the dose is 50 mg per KG of fish weight daily for 5 days.

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Kanaplex in the water is better for external issues anyway.


Jay

 

[Reef keeper]

Thanks so much! Ordered kanaplex! Yeah I’m going to try and remove the big fish and get them into a quarantine. Dosed prazipro yesterday and so far everyone seems to be doing pretty good. Saw some weird stuff on the one tangs fin. They seemed more active today.

 

[Rick2024]

First picture looks like ich. But you can have ich and flukes. Do a fresh water dip. Use rodi water in a bag (temp match it to your aquarium by leaving the bag inside the aquarium) put a splash of tank water in it, shake the bag to aerate it, put a fish in it for a minute. While this will get rid of visible ich and flukes, if you pour the water into a black bucket, you should see flukes left (white circles).

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks so much! Ordered kanaplex! Yeah I’m going to try and remove the big fish and get them into a quarantine. Dosed prazipro yesterday and so far everyone seems to be doing pretty good. Saw some weird stuff on the one tangs fin. They seemed more active today.

I don't see any major issues on this tang. How are the eyes on the purple tang? I think you need to CAREFULLY consider the risk of moving these large fish into a smaller tank, as well as the risk of doing dips on them. If the fish are stable and eating well, you might want to just wait another day or so to see how the Prazi does with them.

Jay

 

[Reef keeper]

I was worried about the white things on his pectoral fins. I will sit tight and wait for the prazi to do its thing! The purples eye doesn’t look worse, looks about the same likewise with the hippo.