Has anyone successfully raised Sunshine Chromis from fry?

[RSNJReef]

Ok, drained the entire system, washed everything, and put new tank water into the system. When I went to collect the eggs, there were a lot more than I thought, maybe 500+. It’s the biggest egg clutch I’ve seen so far so looks like the male and female are becoming better at breeding.

I started to collect the eggs with rigid airline tubing attached to flexible airline tubing which siphoned into a deli container (just a scraping the tank walls to get the eggs). Every time before I collected eggs, the male which was tending to them would bolt and stay away until I collected the eggs, then he would come back in and tend to the rest of the leftover eggs. This time, dad was angry apparently. As I collected the eggs, the damsel seemed to freak out at first and dash around, but after 10 seconds, he came back in head butting and biting the rigid tubing. With how brave the fish was being, I elected to only collect around 50-80 of the eggs and left the rest behind for him to tend to . The fry will get killed or eaten in my living room tank, but, at least it keeps the male tending to the eggs for a while.

took a pic of the eggs I harvested. A group of them below:

also took a zoomed in image. The eggs definitely look fertilized as the cells within the egg have split:

Based on what I saw, I think they did in fact lay the eggs today. Either way, will wait until it gets closer to hatching before I start feeding the rotifers.

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok another quick update. Collected a couple of the eggs and it looks like the head and tails are developing by the second day. As the eggs sat under the light, they were completely still at first, but after about 15 seconds under the light of the microscope, the eggs started twitching in a rhythm, kind of like a heart beat.
Pics below of eggs, will take another round of pics tomorrow and see how far along they get. Guessing it’ll be another 2 days or so before they hatch.

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok, so things moved a little faster than expected this time. The eggs started hatching tonight. Possibly due to the heater being in the system now. There are still some eggs developing, and for just the couple of fish that hatched so far, one looked bigger than the rest, so it seems like the hatching will be different for each egg. I figure most of them would be hatched by tomorrow afternoon.

some pictures of the unhatched eggs, they are moving/twitching in the eggs, so they are alive but unhatched:


I couldn’t catch the bigger fry, so here’s pics of one of the smaller ones:

since they are hatching, I added rotifers to the bowls and this time instead of feeding a mix of iso/nanno/tet, I fed a little bit of pure iso.

in looking at the head of the fry Iit looks like it will be close, pic of the fish and a second pic of a rotifer at the same magnification:

will see what happens tomorrow.

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok, another update (this one is for last night). It looks like the hatch rate was much more successful this time. There were at least 20 swimming fry in each of the fish bowls today. I believe the male and female chromis are becoming much better at fertilizing and caring for the eggs early on. That and my system appears to have fully cycled. Pics of one of the fish bowls below (the small lines are the fry):

Also, looks like they still have their yoke sacs and no mouths formed yet.

Pic of fry #1 collected:

Pic of fry #2 collected:

 

[RSNJReef]

OK another quick update. I am feeding rotifers every morning and evening now to the culture trying to make the fish bowls nice and dense with rotifers at each feeding.(at least three rotifers per ml). The fry are still alive, but it does look like I lost a few. Looks like there are about 15 or so in each fishbowl now I collected another one from one of the fish bowls, and it does look like their stomach and intestines are developing, but still having a hard time seeing a mouth. The eyes do look to be fully developed, and when I shine a light on them some but not all appear to swim towards the light I do not see anything within their stomachs, however so not sure if the rotifers will work though I do notice at each feeding before I feed, the rotor for count has significantly dropped to less than one rotifer per ml). The parvo culture is coming along, and I probably can start feeding the parvo, but want to run this through with the rotifers to see if they can survive on a primarily rotifer diet. If this batch fails with the rotifers, then I will try the next round using primarily parvo. Below is a picture of one of the fry collected last night at around 11 PM:

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok,so, another update reflecting last night. All the fry died except for 2, which I don’t believe will survive to today. I managed to catch one of the two remaining and it looks like the mouth finally developed, and, following the 10% mouth gape rule, I don’t thinks even the parvocalanus will work with this fry. I think my only option would be infusoria at this stage. My last infusoria culture faded out cause I didn’t use it and neglected it, so going to try to start another infusoria culture tonight and see if I can keep it going to have a sustainable supply for the next batch. I may try the parvo nauplii for the next batch just to try it, but will see.

pics for reference below, fry, a rotifer, and aadult parvocalanus at the same zoom magnification for reference:

 

[NanoJHB]

I'm loving this thread and the way you are documenting the process!

The pictures of the development are incredible. Keep us posted and keep up the good work

 

[NanoJHB]

It is so interesting to see, I hope you get some more success with the next batch

 

[kevgib67]

Sticking around for this one, well done!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Ok,so, another update reflecting last night. All the fry died except for 2, which I don’t believe will survive to today. I managed to catch one of the two remaining and it looks like the mouth finally developed, and, following the 10% mouth gape rule, I don’t thinks even the parvocalanus will work with this fry. I think my only option would be infusoria at this stage. My last infusoria culture faded out cause I didn’t use it and neglected it, so going to try to start another infusoria culture tonight and see if I can keep it going to have a sustainable supply for the next batch. I may try the parvo nauplii for the next batch just to try it, but will see.

pics for reference below, fry, a rotifer, and aadult parvocalanus at the same zoom magnification for reference:

Yeah, you'd need to screen the Parvocalanus culture prior to feeding them so that you're only offering the baby Parvocalanus pods (the 1st stage nauplii) to the fish larvae. This is what I was meaning when I brought up sieving the culture if the feeders were too large.

Adult Parvocalanus pods get up to 400 microns, whereas stage 1nauplii are about 40 microns. This means that they should be ~1/10 the size of the adult pods (which looks like it would fit with the ~20% gape rule). So, basically, before offering the feeders to the fish, strain them through a 45 or 50 micron mesh - this ensures that you're only getting the smallest available feeders (those that are small enough to fall through a 45 or 50 micron mesh), which should be more appropriately sized for the larval fish.

That said, though, if the larvae are dying before the mouth is fully formed, it may indicate an issue with the broodstock (the parents) - it could be that the broodstock are just inexperienced and struggling to produce high quality eggs, or they may need a slightly improved diet (both of these are issues I've heard about commonly with clownfish, and the broodstock diet was an issue with the rearing of blue tangs). If it's inexperience, it may just take a few batches before you get some that do well; if it's the broodstock diet, you may want to consider adding blackworms or similar to what you're already feeding the broodstock to get them some more, healthy fats.

 

[RSNJReef]

Thanks Kev and Nano!

honestly I tried to get into this as much as I can because I’m was so excited to finally have something spawning in one of my fish tanks. Been in the hobby 9 years waiting for something to spawn (except for my dragonets, but will mention that later) but it never happened. Even had pairings of seahorses and they never bred, even with 10% daily water changes in an 80 gallon system. I got so bored over the years I started culturing various copepods (parvo, Tisbe, tigger, apocyclops, etc), rotifers, and brine shrimp just to see if I could do it, but nothing ever spawned except for my mandarin and scooter pairs, but with those I was completely unprepared and never could get it right.

figure even if I fail miserably here, maybe some else more capable than me can learn from this and take it to the next level, but, I’m going to try everything I can.

 

[RSNJReef]

Yeah, you'd need to screen the Parvocalanus culture prior to feeding them so that you're only offering the baby Parvocalanus pods (the 1st stage nauplii) to the fish larvae. This is what I was meaning when I brought up sieving the culture if the feeders were too large.

Adult Parvocalanus pods get up to 400 microns, whereas stage 1nauplii are about 40 microns. This means that they should be ~1/10 the size of the adult pods (which looks like it would fit with the ~20% gape rule). So, basically, before offering the feeders to the fish, strain them through a 45 or 50 micron mesh - this ensures that you're only getting the smallest available feeders (those that are small enough to fall through a 45 or 50 micron mesh), which should be more appropriately sized for the larval fish.

That said, though, if the larvae are dying before the mouth is fully formed, it may indicate an issue with the broodstock (the parents) - it could be that the broodstock are just inexperienced and struggling to produce high quality eggs, or they may need a slightly improved diet (both of these are issues I've heard about commonly with clownfish, and the broodstock diet was an issue with the rearing of blue tangs). If it's inexperience, it may just take a few batches before you get some that do well; if it's the broodstock diet, you may want to consider adding blackworms or similar to what you're already feeding the broodstock to get them some more, healthy fats.

thanks ISFTS, this give me a little more faith with the parvo, so I think I’ll try just the parvo for the next batch and see how that does. I’ve made my own seives over the years, but the company I used to buy it from don’t seem to sell the mesh anymore on Amazon, and I’ve been trying to get different screens from other suppliers but the quality is sub par at best. Trying out another supplier and should be getting them over the next week or so, so hopefully the new sheets I get would work.

As for the feeding, I feed the tank heavily, and do 5 gallon water changes 5 days a week in 102 gallons of water (actually measured the tank and sump water volume when I started up this tank). What I feed is a 1/2 of a portion of mixed food which consists of:

1 cube hikari marine algae mix
1 cube hikari krill
1 cube hikari mysis shrimp
1/8 teaspoon of seaweed extreme pellets
1/4 teaspoon of crushed fish flakes (kelp flakes)
1/16 teaspoon of sanolife mic-f
1/16 teaspoon benepets
1/4 teaspoon reef nutrition roe
1/4 teaspoon reef nutrition arctic pods
1 teaspoon reef nutrition phyto feast

i also add 1 teaspoon of amino acids whenever I feed

I feed this twice a day. Every other week I’ll miss one feeding or so, but 90% of the time I’ll get 2 feedings in.

I tried black worms in the past to try and get pairs to breed, but it never seemed to make a difference for me. I’m also a little Leary of the bacterial content because I’m extremely cautious with whatever I add to the tank.

I had tried getting a hold of LRS fertility frenzy the other day through my lfs, but my lfs then found out LRS discontinued the fertility frenzy through the Covid timeframe because the fertility frenzy just wasn’t sustainable for them. Sucks.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Seems like you've got a really good diet and feeding routine there. The fat content might be a tiny bit low (and you could try boosting it with something if you'd like - if there is an issue with the eggs, the little extra fat may help), but that's the only potential issue I can see with the food you're using. Honestly, though, the only other suggestion I can really think to offer at this point (and I'd really only suggest it if the next few batches have die-offs while the mouth is forming despite having small feeders available) is possibly adding a third feeding.

As a side note here, I'm actually quite impressed by Hikari's Mega Marine line there; I haven't looked at that line in depth before, but it says it has a 75% dry protein content and - depending on the specific blend in the line (regular, angel, and algae) - a 10-15% dry fat content with solid/good ingredients. The only thing that I see that I wish they had in the mix is some kind of fish (LRS Reef Frenzy has Ocean Perch and Whitefish, for example) and, for the algae blend, some kind of bivalve or two. For comparison, LRS Reef Frenzy - according to their lab test results on their site - has 59.1% dry protein and 12.7% dry fat.

 

[docforestal]

loving this thread and your logging - will follow along anxiously

 

[RSNJReef]

Seems like you've got a really good diet and feeding routine there. The fat content might be a tiny bit low (and you could try boosting it with something if you'd like - if there is an issue with the eggs, the little extra fat may help), but that's the only potential issue I can see with the food you're using. Honestly, though, the only other suggestion I can really think to offer at this point (and I'd really only suggest it if the next few batches have die-offs while the mouth is forming despite having small feeders available) is possibly adding a third feeding.

As a side note here, I'm actually quite impressed by Hikari's Mega Marine line there; I haven't looked at that line in depth before, but it says it has a 75% dry protein content and - depending on the specific blend in the line (regular, angel, and algae) - a 10-15% dry fat content with solid/good ingredients. The only thing that I see that I wish they had in the mix is some kind of fish (LRS Reef Frenzy has Ocean Perch and Whitefish, for example) and, for the algae blend, some kind of bivalve or two. For comparison, LRS Reef Frenzy - according to their lab test results on their site - has 59.1% dry protein and 12.7% dry fat.

Actually that’s a really good thought (and I feel like an idiot for not thinking of this) with the fat content. You’re right, a lot of fish foods tend to be heavier on the protein and lower on the fats, which is good for healthy muscle in fish, but you need more fats to sustain a completely healthy system. It’s the reason why isochrisis is a better enrichment for copepods and brine before feeding off, cause it has a higher lipid content. Thanks ISFTS!!!!!
I have some me hufa enrichment powder that I use for seahorses from time to time. I might add a bit for that to each feed and see what happens. I think you’re right about the brood stock too, cause I’m noticing each new batch I get, the fry are surviving for longer each round, but that might also be because I’m learning along the way too. I’ve also had this pair for over a year, and they were smaller when I get them, so I believe this is a new breeding pair.

so it looks like the parents laid another batch of eggs today (these were well camouflaged on the bottom of the tank, the only way I knew they were there cause the male was tending to them).

I collected another batch of those eggs (left half of them behind for the male to tend to). I’m starting to notice I’m really starting to like that male damsel. Normally you’d think aggression is frowned upon but as I collect the eggs and he relentlessly attacks the collection tube, I am kind of proud of him protecting his babies. Silly but it makes me smile.

The fry system has been cleaned, rinsed, and new eggs in. Making some sieves now for the parvo (just got some new mesh, will see how these sheets go).

thanks!!!!

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok, so, another quick update before bed. I’m glad ISFTS reminded me of the size of the parvocalanus nauplii, because I forgot how small they were visually. I harvested for the first time with this culture tonight, and I realized that I should have been harvesting for the last few days to start ramping up the egg production (the more eggs/nauplii you pull out, the higher the yield of the nauplii becomes). I probably only managed to harvest about 10,000 nauplii, but, they really are tiny (see pics below of the fry from a day or two ago showing the mouth size, and then the size of the parvo nauplii in the next pic. Once these eggs are ready to hatch, will feed purely the parvo for this round. Will see how this goes. If this doesn’t work, then it’s infusoria for the next round after this, but, fingers crossed for this batch.

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok another update. Collected some of the eggs and took some photos. While I believe these eggs were laid yesterday around noon time (that seems to be around the time the chromis lay their eggs), some of the eggs are pretty developed with tails already.

The interesting thing is when you look at the egg clusters, all the eggs are developing at different rates, some look like they are still in the cell splitting stage, and some look well developed with tails already, and I’m guessing there will be at least a couple swimmers by tomorrow night. There are also quite a few cloudy eggs, which tells me this batch wasn’t fertilized as well as the last batch. What I think is happening is that because there are two males and one female, and the female seems to keep breeding with the smaller male, the bigger male gets mad and disrupts the egg laying/fertilization by dive bombing the breeding pair during egg laying/fertilization. I’ve also noticed that one or two times a night the bigger male will fry and rush the female, and the female , who is bigger than the bigger male, will charge back at him and chase him away. I also saw the bigger male with a scratch on his side and the female had a scratch on her mouth, so I’m guessing they had a spat.

either way, pics of the eggs below (took them about an hour ago). Tomorrow once the swimmers start will probably wait 24 hours then will start feeding the parvo nauplii.

 

[AquaDaniel]

Omg this looks so fun!! Definitely looking forward to the progress

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok, so, another quick update. No pictures this morning but as expected, the fry started to hatch last night between 7pm and 9pm. Last night by 9pm there were only about 4 per fish bowl, but this morning there looks to be about 15 per fish bowl. Without magnification some do look a little bigger than others, and I’m guessing the smaller ones had just hatched a few hours ago.

I collected some of the parvocalanus nauplii and fed it to the fish bowls along with around 15 ml of isochrysis per fish bowl, and noticed immediately all of the fry started swimming around a lot more as opposed to drifting in the water column (without anything else in the water except for fry, they drifted in the water and would do their dashes every 3-4 seconds, but once I added the parvocalanus nauplii they started dashing about once per 1-2 seconds), and the larger ones seemed to try and continuously swim for about 3-4 seconds, then would take a rest for about 2-3 seconds.

will try and collect one or two of the fry tonight to see how they are doing.

 

[RSNJReef]

Ok, another update guys. I underestimated on what I expected this batch of eggs to produce. I had thought that I had collected around 80-100 eggs, and quite a few of them had looked unfertilized, but, when I got home, it looks like there were about 50 fry in one of the fishbowl and about 30 in the other one, so either the survival of the fry through the hatching process is going up as the parents are getting better at producing and fertilizing the eggs, or I just collected more than I thought, though I think it might be the former.

this batch also seems to have stronger swimmers, or maybe it’s the parvocalanus nauplii that’s activating something in them that the rotifers just weren’t doing. From two batches ago, the fry seemed to only be able to dash about an inch or two, but tonight when tried to siphon out some of the fry for pictures, the fry was able to dash around 3-4 inches at at a time. It took me over 15 minutes to catch 3 fry cause they were able to run away from the siphon more effectively this round.

I did manage to collect 3 of them though, in the pics below, it’s interesting to see fry # 2 with how it’s head looks cloudy, not like the prior fry I had seen from the other batches at this time point. Not sure if this cloudiness is a sign of a deformity or not, but will see in time. All the fry I collected also appear to still have their yolk sacs and I don’t see any mouths yet, will check again tomorrow afternoon to see how they are developing.

on a side note, I’m noticing that with my 5 gallon parvo system, I’m collecting 10,000 nauplii by collecting and siphoning out a half a gallon twice each day (I then return the adults to the culture, but feed the nauplii to the fish bowls). 20,000 a day from a 5 gallon system is extremely low, and possibly what I was doing is feeding too little isochrysis (I’d feed 30ml to the 5 gallon system twice a day). Whenever I came back 12 hours later from the last phyto feeding, the culture water looked clear, so going to try 40ml twice a day to see if that improves things.

ok, so, pics of the fry from tonight:

fry #1

Fry #2

fry #3