Help IDing ich vs brook

[StevenL]

Can someone help me determine if this is ich vs brook?

Long story short, I found what I thought was a good deal on a kole tang and added it to my reef. All seemed well at first but now I've noticed a few spots on its fins which spread to all over its body. It seems to have infected my orchid dottyback and now my clowns. This has been progressing over the last several days, the only fish that doesn't seem infected is a yellow watchman goby. All the fish are behaving, breathing, and eating normally. Salinity is .025, temp is 79F, calcium is a little low but everything else seems fine.

I have a decent amount of corals so dosing the tank with anything isn't really an option. I've read up on poly labs but am undecided on it. I unfortunately don't have the space for a larger QT tank, I only have an extra 10 gallon which I am going to convert into a temporary QT/hospital with copper/metroplex but I obviously can't fit all the fish in this tank.

Any help determining what this is or advice would be appreciated,

Thanks

 

[Stephen8169301]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can someone help me determine if this is ich vs brook?

Long story short, I found what I thought was a good deal on a kole tang and added it to my reef. All seemed well at first but now I've noticed a few spots on its fins which spread to all over its body. It seems to have infected my orchid dottyback and now my clowns. This has been progressing over the last several days, the only fish that doesn't seem infected is a yellow watchman goby. All the fish are behaving, breathing, and eating normally. Salinity is .025, temp is 79F, calcium is a little low but everything else seems fine.

I have a decent amount of corals so dosing the tank with anything isn't really an option. I've read up on poly labs but am undecided on it. I unfortunately don't have the space for a larger QT tank, I only have an extra 10 gallon which I am going to convert into a temporary QT/hospital with copper/metroplex but I obviously can't fit all the fish in this tank.

Any help determining what this is or advice would be appreciated,

Thanks

Ouch- You have a couple of issues going on here. The clown has brooklynella and the tang and gramma has Velvet. This is two different issues and i recommend two different quarantine tanks. I often suggest due to low cost, a starter tank kit from Walmart which has many of the essentials.
For the clown:
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.

For the tang and Gramma:
You could also use Ruby Rally Pro but Ruby takes a little longer with this issue. Besy bet is to treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, read the box to be sure it targets Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand). Assure the medication you use states treats Oodinum. Also monitor ammonia levels with a reliable test kit and add aeration with use of an air stone

 

[threebuoys]

This appears to be an advanced stage of ich on the tang and the others are also showing early symptoms. You need to treat all of the fish in a QT using either copper power or copper safe. You should get the concentration to 2.50 ppm quickly you can see more details about treatment in the link below. You will also need to keep thr DT fallow for 6 to 8 weeks before returning the fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I see moderately severe ich on the tang, and either flukes or the start of ich on the dottyback .
With the tang having ich that severe, all of the fish will need to be treated.
Options are Coppersafe at 2.5 ppm or hyposalinity at 1.009 - neither can be done with invertebrates present though.
Jay

 

[StevenL]

I see moderately severe ich on the tang, and either flukes or the start of ich on the dottyback .
With the tang having ich that severe, all of the fish will need to be treated.
Options are Coppersafe at 2.5 ppm or hyposalinity at 1.009 - neither can be done with invertebrates present though.
Jay

Thanks for the response. Do you think the tang is a goner at this point?

I've read through your quarantine procedures thread, If I were to set up a 20 gallon long bare bottom QT tank tomorrow how big of an issue would it be that it's not a cycled tank? I have a 10 AIO already up and running that I can put the clowns & goby in and begin running copper but I'll need something larger for the dottyback & tang. I could seed it with some media from the existing tank unless that's a no go due to the disease present?

 

[threebuoys]

You will need to check ammonia with a reliable test kit since the QT will not be cycled. You may need to frequently change water to reduce ammonia. If you have media that does not absorb copper, you may use it, just be sure to test until you are sure it's working. A foam filter powered by an air pump is often all you need. You can keep one in your DT sump so it will be available if needed.
You should have time to save the tang. Add a half dose, wait an hour for it to mix, test the copper concentration, then extrapolate what's needed to get to full dose and add it.

 

[StevenL]

I woke up today and the tang now has some discoloration/splotches on it and is staying low to the sand bed. Definitely not looking to hot. I have a 10 gallon already set up to use as a QT for my clowns but am going to grab a 20L once petco opens up for the tang & dottyback. Hopefully I don't stress them out to much trying to relocate them. Will begin dosing copper power on both QTs today. Will keep this thread updated on my progress

 

[threebuoys]

BTW, if you treat with copper, you should not dose metroplex. It will not increase odds for success and best to stick with only one drug for ich. If you see signs of flukes (for example, flashing) you will need to use praziquantel at some point. If flukes appear to be serious, you may dose prazi simultaneously with copper.

 

[StevenL]

BTW, if you treat with copper, you should not dose metroplex. It will not increase odds for success and best to stick with only one drug for ich. If you see signs of flukes (for example, flashing) you will need to use praziquantel at some point. If flukes appear to be serious, you may dose prazi simultaneously with copper.

Thanks, appreciate the help. I plan on only treating them with copper initially and will re-evaluate as necessary.

Do you recommend dosing copper up to a certain level prior to adding the fish to the QT (i.e. 1.0ppm) or should I leave it at 0 and begin dosing once the fish are inside?

 

[threebuoys]

Either way. Just get to the full dose of 2.5 (copper power or coppersafe) very quickly, a couple of hours, given the advanced stage of ich. Copper is ineffective until the full dose is achieved

 

[StevenL]

Alright, so everyone is out of the tank. The clowns & goby are in a 10 gallon QT. The dottyback & tang are in a new 20 QT (sounds a lot quicker and less stressful than it actually was.)

Copper has been dosed to around ~2ppm but I'll even it out to 2.5ppm today. Everyone seems to be acting ok. I am getting false ammonia readings after dosing copper. From what I gather this seems to be normal so I ordered seachem ammonia alert. I'll post progress pics & videos when I have more time.

Shoutouts to the fishmedic gang. I posted stressed out on a sunday night and by Monday morning had a plan to execute based on everyone's advice. Appreciate all of you

 

[StevenL]

Sup, been a while figured I'd update.

The tang died- bummer.

The clowns and watchman made a full recovery and show no signs of ich.

The orchid dottyback is also recovered but appears to have a little scarring on its side? Not sure if this is normal, still researching. Seems to have improved as much as its going to.

Had a battle with cyano while fallow which was kind of weird but that's under control now as well.

That's basically it, thanks for reading.