High pH with Alage Turf Scrubber

[reefluvrr]

Happy Holidays!

A little history, I just purchased a lab grade Neptune pH probe on Black Friday and it has been calibrated and gave stable readings of 8.04 to 8.16 night and day.

I recently installed an Algae Turf Scrubber and seeded it with Ulva algae on Dec. 16th.
Since then my pH has crept up to 8.07 to 8.46.

I am considering buying new pH calibration fluid and re-calibrating my new pH pen.

I do two parts dosing and have not increased my Alk dosing for at least a month.

When I installed the Turf Scrubber, I immediately took down my GFO reactor which worked great at keeping my phosphates down at 0.02 to 0.1. (Hana ULR phosphorus tester)

Now my phosphates have crept up to 0.34 in about 10 days!

Here is my ATS on Dec. 15th.

Here is the ATS on 12/23/18

Here is a snap shot of my pH from Dec 18th to Dec 24th, 2018.

It does appear as more algae grew the pH slowly crept up.
Can pH really be this high?

Thanks for your help!

 

[laverda]

The change that is causing the higher PH is removing your GFO.

 

[cpschult]

Are you only running the scrubber at night?

When co2 is removed from the water your pH will raise, ie when your corals are growing (when lights are on) pH will rise.

What’s your alk at?

 

[Coralreefer1]

Calcium and magnesium levels also?

 

[Erasmus Crowley]

During the BRS experiments with algae refugiums that they showed on their youtube channel, they had chaeto and a powerful light raise the PH all the way up to 9. It's just the algae stripping the CO2 out of the water.

I don't know of any reason to worry about high PH though. Low PH kills coral, but high PH helps them grow.

If you're really concerned about it, you could arrange your sump area to feed the output of the algae scrubber into the input of your protein skimmer and the bubble action will replace some of the lost CO2 before the high PH water makes it to the display. That should blunt the effect, in theory.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

pH 8.46 us perfectly fine, but more aeration will lower the pH if you want it lower (unless alk is very high).

 

[reefluvrr]

Are you only running the scrubber at night?

When co2 is removed from the water your pH will raise, ie when your corals are growing (when lights are on) pH will rise.

What’s your alk at?

I am running my scrubber for 20 hours a day. This is a new scrubber only in operation for about 10 days....I need to grow my algae. My goal is to reduce Phosphate without using GFO..

Unfortunately my Alk has gone up from 7dkh to 9 in about 10 days as well. Maybe this is due to taking Rowaphos offline? However I feel that the increase in Phosphate from 0.03 to 0.4 is stunting the alk consumption of my corals... So far my Phosphates are running out of control, I am trying to be patient with the scrubber...

 

[reefluvrr]

pH 8.46 us perfectly fine, but more aeration will lower the pH if you want it lower (unless alk is very high).

Thanks Randy for your reply! I feel like I got gifted a Christmas present from your reply on Christmas day!! You Rock!!!

I am not concerned about the high pH as much as being surprised that my pH never got this nice and high before. It is surprising to see in 10 days the pH going up just from a new scrubber.

However phosphates have gone up as well.... Initially 0.03 to today's reading of 0.4!
I believe my Alk is going up from 7.5 to 9dkh due to higher phosphates level.

I don't think high pH will help corals grow any better when I have high phosphates.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The algae scrubber is probably taking up a lot less phosphate than the GFO was previously. Is there still enough nitrate for the scrubber? Done iron and manganese might also help it grow faster.

 

[reefluvrr]

The algae scrubber is probably taking up a lot less phosphate than the GFO was previously. Is there still enough nitrate for the scrubber? Done iron and manganese might also help it grow faster.

My Nitrate have actually moved up as well. It use to be 2ppm to 4ppm on red sea pro test. This is because I have reduced my NOPOX dosing to allow for the transition to the scrubber.

Yes I am dosing iron and manganese as well for the past week.

I am actually considering shutting down the Turf Algae Scrubber in favor of using Ulva Intestinalis in an Algae Reactor. The major reason is that I get periodic water spray out from the mesh screen down to the outside of the sump from the Scrubber. I have seen a wet puddle on the floor of my cabinet once. I have since adjusted the spray bar, but that still doesn't mean it can't happen again....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My Nitrate have actually moved up as well. It use to be 2ppm to 4ppm on red sea pro test. This is because I have reduced my NOPOX dosing to allow for the transition to the scrubber.

Yes I am dosing iron and manganese as well for the past week.

I am actually considering shutting down the Turf Algae Scrubber in favor of using Ulva Intestinalis in an Algae Reactor. The major reason is that I get periodic water spray out from the mesh screen down to the outside of the sump from the Scrubber. I have seen a wet puddle on the floor of my cabinet once. I have since adjusted the spray bar, but that still doesn't mean it can't happen again....

OK, I can see why splashes of water are problematic. I've not used a scrubber, just macroalgae in water.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I would just keep using gfo in small amounts to get the phosphates under control. With that quick of a rise there is probably some bound up somewhere and the scrubber might take a while to become mature enough to keep them under control, let alone drop that high of a level.

 

[Screwgunner]

If this is a diy led lights have to be red white leds will not grow gha.

 

[Borat]

Your ATS is still in baby ages - it's not pulling out much nutrients yet.. So it could not have made any difference to your PH or phosphates.

This is what you would call a mature screen (you are probably 3 months away from your screen maturing):

it's 1 inch thick on each side of the screen, total 2 inch thickness...

 

[Dan_P]

Happy Holidays!

A little history, I just purchased a lab grade Neptune pH probe on Black Friday and it has been calibrated and gave stable readings of 8.04 to 8.16 night and day.

I recently installed an Algae Turf Scrubber and seeded it with Ulva algae on Dec. 16th.
Since then my pH has crept up to 8.07 to 8.46.

I am considering buying new pH calibration fluid and re-calibrating my new pH pen.

I do two parts dosing and have not increased my Alk dosing for at least a month.

When I installed the Turf Scrubber, I immediately took down my GFO reactor which worked great at keeping my phosphates down at 0.02 to 0.1. (Hana ULR phosphorus tester)

Now my phosphates have crept up to 0.34 in about 10 days!

Here is my ATS on Dec. 15th.

Here is the ATS on 12/23/18

Here is a snap shot of my pH from Dec 18th to Dec 24th, 2018.

It does appear as more algae grew the pH slowly crept up.
Can pH really be this high?

Thanks for your help!

Strong algae growth can remove enough CO2 to raise the pH. I grow Ulva in buckets and it doubles in size in a week. I once isolated one of the buckets and monitored the pH and nitrate. The pH was nearly 9 by the end of the day and the nitrate depleted. I would say how much algae growth affects the system will depend on the amount of algae there is, how quickly it is growing and the production rate of CO2 and nitrate by the system.

 

[Borat]

Strong algae growth can remove enough CO2 to raise the pH. I grow Ulva in buckets and it doubles in size in a week. I once isolated one of the buckets and monitored the pH and nitrate. The pH was nearly 9 by the end of the day and the nitrate depleted. I would say how much algae growth affects the system will depend on the amount of algae there is, how quickly it is growing and the production rate of CO2 and nitrate by the system.

In my 100g tank I have a 40w ATS (A4 sized) and a refugium (20w light) that has football size chaeto ball. These 2 barely make a dent on my tank's PH levels - so I have to dose Kalk to lift it a bit..

 

[Dan_P]

In my 100g tank I have a 40w ATS (A4 sized) and a refugium (20w light) that has football size chaeto ball. These 2 barely make a dent on my tank's PH levels - so I have to dose Kalk to lift it a bit..

Good to know.

Just curious. How often does the Chaeto double in size? Same question for the ATS mass? That is relative indication of how fast it is removing CO2 from your system.

 

[Borat]

Good to know.

Just curious. How often does the Chaeto double in size? Same question for the ATS mass? That is relative indication of how fast it is removing CO2 from your system.

One side of ATS screen is scraped bare once every 10 days.
About 1/3 of Chaeto ball is removed weekly..

I don't have a skimmer - these 2 are the only nutrient export methods.

 

[Dan_P]

One side of ATS screen is scraped bare once every 10 days.
About 1/3 of Chaeto ball is removed weekly..

I don't have a skimmer - these 2 are the only nutrient export methods.

Things are growing nicely.