Hit my breaking point, thinking of leaving the hobby

[jt17]

Stick with it bro. We've all been through these frustrating times and we feel your pain. Just remember nothing good happens fast. This may take a little time. Keep the tank stable and things will sort themselves out. If you are concerned about metals then you might want to consider a triton test. The test is a bit pricey but it will tell you if you have any elements out of whack. I was having a funk go through my tank a while back, sent off a triton test and discovered I had elevated levels of tin. Do you have any used equipment that could be rusting inside? A few months back I thought my water was kind of yellowish so I ran some BRS rox carbon and man did my corals object. I have a 155 and I put a mesh bag of about 2 cups of BRS rox carbon in the sump and my water improved but I think it stripped other things out that the corals rely upon. I must have used too much. After I removed it things got better.

 

[Tropical lionfish]

Hang in there mate! This hobby is just about 49% headache and 51% fun. I can guarantee that everybody who had read and/or replied to this thread did have great levels of frustrations. And all the replies/comments are priceless and can be equally true. I think the problem is that this hobby is dependent on so many factors which singularly or jointly can cause a lot of issues. My two cents includes a) find a new lfs who would actually care instead of shooting in the dark and selling you stuff you don't need b) keep the skimmer c) ensure good water flow in the tank and finally as one said....expect less as of now! Give it another half year and things will look great! I should better get back to thinking how on earth a tiny 5 mm aptasia can look like a garden in six months....!

 

[NanaReefer]

It has taken me 6 years to be able to keep Zoas, seriously! They would start out great but a couple months later, gone! I finally gave up on buying them. Until now! Yup they're thriving go figure-lol.
I submerged myself into those corals that I could keep. All the while educating myself along the way. The most important lessons I've learned is to KEEP IT SIMPLE. Second is trust no one with my water/salt mix but myself. Third is balance is everything!
You and your tank are just babes at 7 months. Your expectations are way to high. Go back to the basics and stay there for at least a year [emoji2]

 

[Damon]

Today things are just getting worse... this is what I mean, shriveled dried out look.

Hmmnnn.. I am going to go at it with a different angle.. I started with nano tanks and have gradually worked my way up..

I do agree with the others and Randy, that you should check for metals.. But.. With that said, I also think and agree that you should check(test) and produce your own water and saltwater. Once you start talking about coral, it's just easier to isolate problems, ensure you are getting the best that you can give, your not chasing circles, and once again, you know "exactly" what your dealing with.. And i stay in a condo also, lol, on top of not being a plumber either.. I have a ro/di and i just use the faucet adapter.. I don't have time for semi installs.. And I have done this at two places i have lived over the past 20 years..

Bryopsis: Mmnnn, ugly stuff.. I had it and was able to get sold off it with peroxide.. But, you have tried that.. I am not sure what i would do at this point to be honest.. If you can find an old bottle of tech m, awesome..

Next in the line: sorry, but fire the lfs.. A bunch of chemicals are at best a band aid, and at worst, for the aquarist(like yourself), a nightmare.. Throwing a bunch of parameters of and on.. And what in the world would you change 50% of your water for? That is a lot, unless your trying to pull medicine.. And guaranteed, your coral is going to be angry! Also, carbon is good, but you have to really be careful with it, depending on the type.. That is a massive change.. That is insane! And most of us here, have, at some point recieved that kind of line.. And 99% of us, fired that LFS and were better off for it..

Next, question, you said you had a 30 gallon tank with 2 ai units? What are your lights set on, as far as percent, and time on? And I'm asking because I'm looking at your pictures and trying to find similarities or common factors..

Your dealing with coral, and from your test results (which, i do question personally) you should not have to much of a problem.. If anything, like others said, they may be hungry, but then, you said you've been adding food.. But no skimmer, with no nitrate and or phosphate.. But then, you've been changing water like crazy.. Just thinking while typing..

And my 180 is 7 months old, and has had sps and zoos in it from after a month.. But.. I have been doing this for a while.. And that's another thing, is this your first reef? I'm asking because, I think when someone is new to a reef situation, there is a massive amount that you don't know and learn by good and "bad"..

Personally, I think you should relax and stop spending.. Stop adding chemicals.. Regroup and be patient.. Observe, observe, observe.. Test your own water with your own kits.. Basic things are the steps to succeed.. Slow down with the water changes.. I would, at most, do 2 gallons a week.. But that is me, simply because you are with a nano(smaller tank basically) , and it's so easy to throw things off the smaller the system.. Your growing zoos, so i don't think it's salt, but anything is possible..

And me personally, with all they have had you adding, I would run a skimmer.. At least for a little bit.. But that is me.. And run it, so your skim is fairly dry(dark and thick) , too not pull out much nutrient.. If nothing else, it will aerate your water..

But relax, knowing we have all been there, it is a phase! Stop spending your money on" bottles of miracles ".. It most of the time, makes things much, much worse.. Just slow down on your water changes massively, letting the tank do its thing.. Let it actually build up some nutrient.. Feed the fish a couple times a day, but get some decent tests like red sea, salifert, hanba, etc, and test your water.. You will basically get into a groove and enjoy it more..

But I'm curious about your lights, where they are at, as far as height, levels, etc.. And also water flow (what you are using and how much)..

 

[Nano sapiens]

Since I don't know your LFS, I can't say if they truly have the will or the expertise to help you succeed. What I can say is that throwing 'products' at a situation is rarely the solution.

Ask yourself, "What parameters do the corals need to thrive and am I providing them?":

1. Correct temperature within a range (~77-80 is typical)
2. Sufficient flow (simplified: polyps gently 'swaying in the breeze')
3. Correct lighting (sufficient intensity and proper spectrum - corals will tell you 'yay or nay')
4. Consistent food source (fish waste and/or coral feeds), but not to be over done!
5. Cleanliness (regular water changes, at least occasional sand bed vacuuming and detritus removal from other areas...skimmer is optional)
6. Correct, consistent salinity (~35 ppt or 1.025 - 1.026 specific gravity) using a reputable salt mix and typically RO/DI.
7. Reef proper levels of Ca (calcium), alkalinity and Mg (magnesium) for stony corals, especially
8. Top-off water for evaporation control (typically RO/DI)

For the system as a whole, if you've got the basics mastered then you don't need anything else...just consistency and patience.

Think about ways to simplify/fool-proof the system as much as possible. Work out a simple maintenance schedule and stick to it, but have the flexibility to adjust if something isn't working out optimally.

A successful reef keeper is one who considers all advice carefully/skeptically, and if something is not working, will consider all reputable sources of information to find the correct solution for his/her system.

 

[Tim Russell]

Last night was my breaking point, i have just about had it with corals/inverts. The only creatures that are doing well are my fish. Every 2-3 weeks i run into another issue and i can not figure it out and i am so tired of my lfs having me try this supplement then that one. At first i had a issue with my lights being dialed in right. My shrooms and zoas were shrinking away. So i rented a par meter, got my pars fixed, turned out my lights were not bright enough. Then i had a issue with corals not opening, thinking it was my lights but it wasn't. So my lfs said i have no phosphates or nitrates, so he had me buy Marine Snow, then the corals started to look much better. Then i started to lose zoas again and the same thing, bubble coral not opening, frogspawn not opening, zoas not opening etc. So my lfs said to do 3 water changes a week, tried that and things got better. Then i broke out with bryopsis, so i started treating with mag, i am 3 days into my levels being at 1650, so far nothing on the bryopsis. Now my glass gets brown algae on it every days use to clean the glass once a week. In the past week i lost my rbt, mini maxi and now a carpet is shrinking just like the last 2 nems. This week 2 more zoa colonials are on their way out. My lfs said my water parameters are fine. It's like i was not meant to have a reef tank. I follow every procedure, acclimating, dipping, feedings, water changes. Upgraded my skimmer, i have a UV sterilizer on it's way. I have not had 1 solid month where my tank is running well and everything is doing good. My girlfriend has had it with me and the tank, it's taking over my life. Every time i go to my lfs i walk out another $15-$30 spent on more supplements to fix my issues. I don't know what to do anymore. Here are my tank specs:

7 months old
30 gallon
2 Ai primes
CPR fuge
tunze 9001 skimmer
20lb lr sand
25lb lr
nitrates 0
ammonia 0
nitrites 0
ph 8.4
salinity 1.026
alk 9.8
mag 1650
calcium 470
phosphates 0 (salifurt)
temp 78-79
Was running gfo took it out last week
Running carbon

I have a lot more $$ corals and a new clam, i don't want to see them go down hill. At this point i have no idea what to do or think, that's how frustrated i am. All i want is a healthy tank to come home to and enjoy.

Mag is a bit high in the 1600's. I run mine at 1350-1400.

 

[Newb73]

Welcome to the hobby. Every tank is different and mixed reefs are the hardest. Figure out your tank personality and what live stock thrives for you.

Also, double check the calibration on all your equipment and test kits including the refractometer and RO/DI tds.

I had proper calibration fluid and my refractometer was still reading .02 too high when I got my digital so what I thought was 1.025 was really 1.027.

Before that it was reading too low yet nothings wrong with my calibration fluid.

You could have a bad temp probe, cholarimines in your water, a bad refractometer, a bad batch of salt, one of your pumps could be leaking current into your tank, you could have some toxin getting into your tank...

..the list of points of failures is long but it's probably fixable.

Also some times you just lose a coral and some times keeping mixed types will prove to be impossible and you may have to limit your sekection.

Welcome to the hobby.

 

[RMS18]

Hmmnnn.. I am going to go at it with a different angle.. I started with nano tanks and have gradually worked my way up..

I do agree with the others and Randy, that you should check for metals.. But.. With that said, I also think and agree that you should check(test) and produce your own water and saltwater. Once you start talking about coral, it's just easier to isolate problems, ensure you are getting the best that you can give, your not chasing circles, and once again, you know "exactly" what your dealing with.. And i stay in a condo also, lol, on top of not being a plumber either.. I have a ro/di and i just use the faucet adapter.. I don't have time for semi installs.. And I have done this at two places i have lived over the past 20 years..

Bryopsis: Mmnnn, ugly stuff.. I had it and was able to get sold off it with peroxide.. But, you have tried that.. I am not sure what i would do at this point to be honest.. If you can find an old bottle of tech m, awesome..

Next in the line: sorry, but fire the lfs.. A bunch of chemicals are at best a band aid, and at worst, for the aquarist(like yourself), a nightmare.. Throwing a bunch of parameters of and on.. And what in the world would you change 50% of your water for? That is a lot, unless your trying to pull medicine.. And guaranteed, your coral is going to be angry! Also, carbon is good, but you have to really be careful with it, depending on the type.. That is a massive change.. That is insane! And most of us here, have, at some point recieved that kind of line.. And 99% of us, fired that LFS and were better off for it..

Next, question, you said you had a 30 gallon tank with 2 ai units? What are your lights set on, as far as percent, and time on? And I'm asking because I'm looking at your pictures and trying to find similarities or common factors..

Your dealing with coral, and from your test results (which, i do question personally) you should not have to much of a problem.. If anything, like others said, they may be hungry, but then, you said you've been adding food.. But no skimmer, with no nitrate and or phosphate.. But then, you've been changing water like crazy.. Just thinking while typing..

And my 180 is 7 months old, and has had sps and zoos in it from after a month.. But.. I have been doing this for a while.. And that's another thing, is this your first reef? I'm asking because, I think when someone is new to a reef situation, there is a massive amount that you don't know and learn by good and "bad"..

Personally, I think you should relax and stop spending.. Stop adding chemicals.. Regroup and be patient.. Observe, observe, observe.. Test your own water with your own kits.. Basic things are the steps to succeed.. Slow down with the water changes.. I would, at most, do 2 gallons a week.. But that is me, simply because you are with a nano(smaller tank basically) , and it's so easy to throw things off the smaller the system.. Your growing zoos, so i don't think it's salt, but anything is possible..

And me personally, with all they have had you adding, I would run a skimmer.. At least for a little bit.. But that is me.. And run it, so your skim is fairly dry(dark and thick) , too not pull out much nutrient.. If nothing else, it will aerate your water..

But relax, knowing we have all been there, it is a phase! Stop spending your money on" bottles of miracles ".. It most of the time, makes things much, much worse.. Just slow down on your water changes massively, letting the tank do its thing.. Let it actually build up some nutrient.. Feed the fish a couple times a day, but get some decent tests like red sea, salifert, hanba, etc, and test your water.. You will basically get into a groove and enjoy it more..

But I'm curious about your lights, where they are at, as far as height, levels, etc.. And also water flow (what you are using and how much)..

I have redsea kits and salifert. Yes this is my first reef tank.
Here is a picture of my light settings

 

[RMS18]

Yea he would probably not need a permanent ro hook up. Run something like this:

Then unhook everything and properly store when not in use. No one at the condo association will even know...

I like that idea, will be cheaper than having a plumber come.

 

[RMS18]

Wait do you have an ato?

No I do not, I top off with rodi water every morning when I feed I add about 1 cup of water a day.

 

[RMS18]

Mag is a bit high in the 1600's. I run mine at 1350-1400.

Mine is that high at the moment because I am trying to kill bryopsis. However I belive I got the new formula of tech m because there is not change in the bryopsis.

 

[RMS18]

Wonder how many people start off with a nano thinking it will be easier? Heck if you can keep up with a nano your golden.

I understand it isn't easy and I knew that but not knowing what an issue is sucks. You have a lot of Algae ok nutrients are high... and now you can tackle that. I don't know what is wrong.

 

[meganias123]

Hi So I've read through a bunch of these responses to your op. Sorry to hear about the issues you're having ;( However, it would be tragic if you gave up (especially after seeing that fish bladder surgery video you posted -very nice). It's awesome how quickly everyone on this sw forum came to your aid with helpful tips and even that chill person who offered you coral for a flat shipping fee So cool!
The first thing that popped into my mind though - even though I'm not an expert nor close to it - was maybe some sort of metalic issue? The way you're having such problems with your inverts and corals... it just seemed like the most reasonable explanation. Of course, that doesn't mean it is... I'd hit up that Triton test or some other reliable water test that goes for metals. Also, I agree in thinking it'd be a good/productive idea to switch over to your own water (RO/DI or some distilled gallon jugs from Walmart or some other supercenter). I've used the distilled water gallons from Walmart for the last 8 months since starting my 36 gallon sw tank (as well as instant ocean salt) and have had no problems with my fish, invertebrates, or corals (LPS and zoas) ... Anyways, I'm sure things will bouce back for you -especially since it seems you're in good hands!

 

[RMS18]

Hi So I've read through a bunch of these responses to your op. Sorry to hear about the issues you're having ;( However, it would be tragic if you gave up (especially after seeing that fish bladder surgery video you posted -very nice). It's awesome how quickly everyone on this sw forum came to your aid with helpful tips and even that chill person who offered you coral for a flat shipping fee So cool!
The first thing that popped into my mind though - even though I'm not an expert nor close to it - was maybe some sort of metalic issue? The way you're having such problems with your inverts and corals... it just seemed like the most reasonable explanation. Of course, that doesn't mean it is... I'd hit up that Triton test or some other reliable water test that goes for metals. Also, I agree in thinking it'd be a good/productive idea to switch over to your own water (RO/DI or some distilled gallon jugs from Walmart or some other supercenter). I've used the distilled water gallons from Walmart for the last 8 months since starting my 36 gallon sw tank (as well as instant ocean salt) and have had no problems with my fish, invertebrates, or corals (LPS and zoas) ... Anyways, I'm sure things will bouce back for you -especially since it seems you're in good hands!

Thank you, yes I was not expecting so many replies so quickly. Everyone has been so awesome and because of the support I decided not to breakdown the tank and push through this with the advice from some of the members. Advice that is fresh and different from what I have been told from lfs.

 

[meganias123]

Thank you, yes I was not expecting so many replies so quickly. Everyone has been so awesome and because of the support I decided not to breakdown the tank and push through this with the advice from some of the members. Advice that is fresh and different from what I have been told from lfs.

Glad to hear Hope everything works out without much more grief but in the end it'll be worth it! Saltwater tanks and critters are the best! Haha

 

[southernreefer]

Sidenote: be aware of neglecting your personal relationships for sake of being so wrapped up in your tank. It's tough to do sometimes because we get so involved. I know that is not the main focus, but I figured I would throw my two cents in on that. I've made that mistake.

 

[southernreefer]

Just be glad it's not a 200g 10k$ system.

That doesn't necessarily make it any easier. It could proportionally be worth the same.

 

[wpeterson]

The best way to get around the frustration is to build up your reef step by step:
1) Temperature Stability: buy a decent heater
2) Salinity Stability: use correct salinity, use an ATO to maintain salinity, don't deviate during water changes
3) Dosing Stability: get your Alk/Calc/Mag right with manual testing, automate their maintenance with a calcium reactor/dosing pumps/manual dosing
4) Stable, low nutrient levels: measure your nitrate/phosphate levels, export your nutrients to keep them low enough (skim, water change)

At each of these levels, if you have a stability problem at a lower level, doing the right thing at a more complex level isn't going to help. If you're not measuring and maintaining salinity in your tank going back and getting that sorted out will be the best thing you can do. Get a refractometer, mix your own water, automate your top off system.

I know how you feel and I've had a ton of setbacks in our tanks that almost broke me as a reefer, but the best thing you can do is get back to the fundamentals. Is there anyone locally you know who's an established hobbyist you can talk to? It's always great to share the pain, get ideas, and maybe work around a problem with someone in your community.

 

[bfam4t6]

I don't want make an excuse and be that guy... so I'll have to figure out where I can put this rodi unit. The association almost didn't let me have the tank, they do not know about the qt tank. They told me 200lbs only I'm way past that plus the qt. I do not have laundry machines in the place. I'll have to get a plumber in here to help.

I think it will make things a lot easier for you, both keeping things healthy, and being able to more easily diagnose problems when things are not so healthy.

And, I realize this advice is too little too late for this current situation, but one of my favorite mottoes is

"Do not waste your time asking for permission. Just be ready to ask for forgiveness if it should become necessary."

It's amazing what people tolerate when it's already staring them in the face while simultaneously clearly not being any real problem.

 

[matthewkennaway]

Dont do that you will be right charley brown lol