Hobbyist grade UV vs Ich (worthless???)

[Claus84]

Hi all,

So despite my best intentions I now have a 300g ich management reef tank. I must have messed up my QT and fallow period as some fish are now showing spots again.

I see UV mentioned as an aid in reducing theront numbers and was ready to go out and buy an 80w unit from D-D. The slowest flow this unit can take without overheating is apparently around 2600lph which equates to just over 72uw/sec/cm2 which the manufacturer claim is adequate to kill MI. Reading further into UV though it seems that all evidence points to a minimum of 280uw/s/cm2 (and anywhere up to 800!) being required in order to kill MI.

So my question is, is this model, which is one of the strongest commonly available, and are all hobbyist grade UV's completely useless for aiding control of MI? It would certainly seem that way but so many people seem to swear by them and I would imagine the main reason many people purchase one is with MI in mind, is this just an incredibly clever marketing trick by the manufacturers or do they actually have some benefit in reducing theronts?

I know expensive commercial UV's would work but I have neither the space or the budget for these.

I'd be interested to hear everyone experiences.

Thanks

Nick

 

[EmdeReef]

Based on all the independent research I’ve seen into this you need a lot of energy to kill marine ich. Way more than any hobby grade units.

 

[ReeferReefer]

The Pentair 80W seems like it would be a better fit for your system. You are going to need to seriously overpower these UV sterilizers to put a dent in Ich. In general it is not an effective means of controlling disease.

 

[Claus84]

Based on all the independent research I’ve seen into this you need a lot of energy to kill marine ich. Way more than any hobby grade units.

Thanks, sadly that is what I was expecting to hear.

Looks like it's good feeding, high water quality,as little stress as possible and a lot of luck then!

 

[EmdeReef]

Thanks, sadly that is what I was expecting to hear.

Looks like it's good feeding, high water quality,as little stress as possible and a lot of luck then!

Good luck!
It can be done! IME the most difficult part is if you plan on adding new fish.

You can also try using something like a nu-clear filter to reduce the number of parasites. This is a suggestion from @Thales I’m trying on friend’s tank.

 

[Claus84]

Good luck!
It can be done! IME the most difficult part is if you plan on adding new fish.

You can also try using something like a nu-clear filter to reduce the number of parasites. This is a suggestion from @Thales I’m trying on friend’s tank.

They look interesting! I'm in the UK and we don't seem to be able to get them unfortunately be seems like a great idea.

I wonder if a fine mesh (20 micron maybe) filter sock over the drains would work instead. I guess clogging would be a real issue unless I could get a huge one but with my 10x turnover it would surely make a dent in the free swimmers?

I think I read somewhere that the smaller strains were around 27microm but could be wrong.

I have some thinking to do, the bulk of my stock is not yet in the 300, just 8 fish so far so my gut is telling me I should just rip the tank apart and catch these again. I'm on borrowed time with the quarantine tanks really though as we have a new baby and need our spare rooms back. I have had multiple QTs running for over a year now! My biggest QT is a 55g but I have too many fish to put them all in it at once so end up running a few tanks.

Thanks

Nick

 

[EmdeReef]

youd have to change the socks often, some clogging is not bad but you’d need to prevent overflowing.

Colorni described theronts of 20-30 - 50-70 microns. But subsequently smaller and larger strains have been described. In some cases I guess a 20micron rollermat might work...

 

[FlyPenFly]

TMC Vecton

 

[Thales]

All anecdote - I have tried it with filter socks, but feel like most of the time there isn't enough flow through to make decent difference, and much prefer a canister that you can really push the water through. IIRC, some of the free swimming stage is 18 microns or 15 microns, so I think a pleated cartridge that you let run for a month or so should clog up decently. I don't think the roller filters are a good option because they are 20 micron.

 

[Thales]

People swear by UV mostly, IMO, because of conformation bias. Add the UV, ich clears up - but it seems to do that in 50% of the cases already so it is hard to say UV does much. It may make you feel like you are doing something, and that is fine. You need a lot of UV and you have to keep it clean. If you are processing 200 gph, it isn't going to do much.
I you can't run a canister, I would try 20 or 10 micron filter socks, but you are going to have to change them often, they clog quick. Can you get any canister with a pleated cartridge?

 

[lapin]

Im using a TMC High Output 110 Watt Professional Unit. It comes with adapters to make it fit USA plumbing. But since you are in the UK....
https://www.swelluk.com/tmc-pro-pond-110w/

 

[stacksoner]

If the UV sterilizer you bought came with no specifications re flow rate required to kill protozoas etc, it's difficult for you to expect it to have any results you're looking for.

The UV lamp is only as good as the housing that allows water to pass through it for the sterilization to take place.

 

[Huskymaniac]

So I plumbed 120 watt pentair inline to my reefer 750. Anything that goes down into the sump is not comming back up into the tank. Definitly will not get rid of a crypto infestation but it will reduce the overall numbers. Whether or not that has any clinical benefit I cant say. The sterilizer is massive and it will need to go in a different room.

 

[JoshH]

@Sarah24! Mind adding your thoughts in here? I think you purchased a TMC as well.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Ahhh lol @JoshH where to start. I was going to get the tmc110 but went with water solutions instead because it also came with the ozone section as well. Not only is it a level 2 steralizer which has the 185 nm bulbs but, has the apparatus for ozone. So I can run the slower flow from a separate dc pump and it will directly go back into the return section. If I get an ick or velvet out break in my 240 the realistic chances of me catching my fish, then surviving copper, then running the tank fallow for up to 90 days has as much theory and so many scientific papers contradict each other. What’s true is we really don’t know and understand the different strains of marine ick and marine velvet as we should. But the nice thing about mine is it will run 24/7 but if I get an outbreak then that’s when the ozone comes in. The ozone will definitely kill any virus and parasite (not to mention me if I’m not careful, (do not run ozone until you actually study it, know it very very well, it’s one thing to lose your fish, it’s another to lose yourself or family over a fish). But most of the pentairs, and aqua (something on marine depot) only run the 285 nm bulbs and they are level c which is clarification only.

Uv will work if you have the proper spacing between the bulb and the cortez sleeve along with dwell time. You have to figure out how many watts with volume of water and turn time. Mine old ones were on 24/7 and I had a stress ick scare and only two fish had symptoms, and it went away in four days. With that said all my fish were in a copper qt for a month prior to going into my display tank. Even more I refuse to add any fish to my tank because basically anything wet can transmit velvet and ick (corals crabs etc) velvet can lay dormant even until its habit suits it needs. It is way too hard to speculate and again we will want to add corals we will want to add cuc etc. some shops have fish and corals separate, still doesn’t mean there is ick laying dormant or velvet laying dormant on something, so best thing to do is add aka firewalls or preventive steps to hinder it. Running the stage 2 (highest) uv is a good start, will it kill the eggs reproducing stages etc and parasites on the fish (nope). But it will definitely knock down and kill the free swimmers. Fish can manage the parasites on their own in the wild and open system. In a closed system, the parasites numbers from reproduction is what devastates fish. But with the uv killing swimmers it gives your fish a chance. Not to mention we have seen different strains get so use to medication copper etc that they have adapted. But they have not adapted to aka radiation.
The other item is using ozone which definitely kills them but I have not tried it yet and still doing information on how to regulate it, proper levels and meters and warnings to use it. Plus my new uv just shipped so I havnt had the chance to look or even hold it yet.

People have their own ways, where they qt everything and x amount of tanks and days and months. Honestly I don’t have the energy to run five tanks and count days etc etc. does it work sure, but depends on the person and their budget and size of house etc etc. my display tank is the center piece of my living room so I don’t want a lot of other tanks etc. sadly my house as nice as is (for me) my garage isn’t air conditioned, or heated. So I don’t think running a tank in my garage is realistic in Boise with stupid hot summers and crazy cold winters. But others it may, but going back to uv they will help and help a lot. Will they miss some probably, but the ratio is about the same as all the other methods. What most don’t understand on uv is you really need the 185nm bulbs with the correct wattage and cortez sleeve and dwell time and flow to really be effective. Then once it is setup check it every six months or 12 when you swap the bulbs. If the tmc110 had access to ozone and not so massive (which it is the other isn’t small either and still has to go behind my tank), but hands down I would have gone with that one. It is longer and has longer dwell time, (my is equal but how they made it (i don’t have a clue).

Here is what mine is suppose to look like and hopefully they do it right. They are special order only and I can’t say they communicate really well (major down side) but the tmc company is extremely good for that. Mine is through water solutions and their site lol isn’t user friendly but if some are curious I have it booked mark so it’s nkt such a pain to go through. I also went with the 240 watt and then I’m using a separate current usa dc return pump as the source with flow meter and gauge so I can set it correctly. I’m still waiting on the ozone generator and gauges and meters to make it work which I may actually double up on to be extra safe.

 

[Lasse]

You are in the UK - use TMC: s equipment - they are very good IME. They have the right type of bulbs - low pressure mercury with the right peak.


Sincerely Lasse

 

[Be102]

Hello,

Ahhh lol @JoshH where to start. I was going to get the tmc110 but went with water solutions instead because it also came with the ozone section as well. Not only is it a level 2 steralizer which has the 185 nm bulbs but, has the apparatus for ozone. So I can run the slower flow from a separate dc pump and it will directly go back into the return section. If I get an ick or velvet out break in my 240 the realistic chances of me catching my fish, then surviving copper, then running the tank fallow for up to 90 days has as much theory and so many scientific papers contradict each other. What’s true is we really don’t know and understand the different strains of marine ick and marine velvet as we should. But the nice thing about mine is it will run 24/7 but if I get an outbreak then that’s when the ozone comes in. The ozone will definitely kill any virus and parasite (not to mention me if I’m not careful, (do not run ozone until you actually study it, know it very very well, it’s one thing to lose your fish, it’s another to lose yourself or family over a fish). But most of the pentairs, and aqua (something on marine depot) only run the 285 nm bulbs and they are level c which is clarification only.

Uv will work if you have the proper spacing between the bulb and the cortez sleeve along with dwell time. You have to figure out how many watts with volume of water and turn time. Mine old ones were on 24/7 and I had a stress ick scare and only two fish had symptoms, and it went away in four days. With that said all my fish were in a copper qt for a month prior to going into my display tank. Even more I refuse to add any fish to my tank because basically anything wet can transmit velvet and ick (corals crabs etc) velvet can lay dormant even until its habit suits it needs. It is way too hard to speculate and again we will want to add corals we will want to add cuc etc. some shops have fish and corals separate, still doesn’t mean there is ick laying dormant or velvet laying dormant on something, so best thing to do is add aka firewalls or preventive steps to hinder it. Running the stage 2 (highest) uv is a good start, will it kill the eggs reproducing stages etc and parasites on the fish (nope). But it will definitely knock down and kill the free swimmers. Fish can manage the parasites on their own in the wild and open system. In a closed system, the parasites numbers from reproduction is what devastates fish. But with the uv killing swimmers it gives your fish a chance. Not to mention we have seen different strains get so use to medication copper etc that they have adapted. But they have not adapted to aka radiation.
The other item is using ozone which definitely kills them but I have not tried it yet and still doing information on how to regulate it, proper levels and meters and warnings to use it. Plus my new uv just shipped so I havnt had the chance to look or even hold it yet.

People have their own ways, where they qt everything and x amount of tanks and days and months. Honestly I don’t have the energy to run five tanks and count days etc etc. does it work sure, but depends on the person and their budget and size of house etc etc. my display tank is the center piece of my living room so I don’t want a lot of other tanks etc. sadly my house as nice as is (for me) my garage isn’t air conditioned, or heated. So I don’t think running a tank in my garage is realistic in Boise with stupid hot summers and crazy cold winters. But others it may, but going back to uv they will help and help a lot. Will they miss some probably, but the ratio is about the same as all the other methods. What most don’t understand on uv is you really need the 185nm bulbs with the correct wattage and cortez sleeve and dwell time and flow to really be effective. Then once it is setup check it every six months or 12 when you swap the bulbs. If the tmc110 had access to ozone and not so massive (which it is the other isn’t small either and still has to go behind my tank), but hands down I would have gone with that one. It is longer and has longer dwell time, (my is equal but how they made it (i don’t have a clue).

Here is what mine is suppose to look like and hopefully they do it right. They are special order only and I can’t say they communicate really well (major down side) but the tmc company is extremely good for that. Mine is through water solutions and their site lol isn’t user friendly but if some are curious I have it booked mark so it’s nkt such a pain to go through. I also went with the 240 watt and then I’m using a separate current usa dc return pump as the source with flow meter and gauge so I can set it correctly. I’m still waiting on the ozone generator and gauges and meters to make it work which I may actually double up on to be extra safe.

Do you still like this Uv?

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Yes it’s really good and keeps the nasties away. It could also be that I don’t add fish either or I also dip my new corals etc. but I havnt had the chance or need to run the ozone. With that said, I STRONGLY CAUTION YOu, that you are very aware and know exactly what your doing. Ozone is great to kill marine ick and velvet other nasties. But it will not only kill them and your fish and corals but you as well if you do not set it up correctly. I have not had the need to use it yet. (Can’t set that up anyway atm), but you need special gauges and monitors. The cool thing is, it always smells like fresh rain. But it’s very nice/

 

[Ming_]

Hello,

From what i read, Troptronic uv seems to be quite popular for reefers in the UK.

I bought a 85W unit myself, but i have yet to install it. Built quality is good, more industrial quality built than hobbyist grade compared to the Aquamedic 55w that i am currently using. It is also much smaller and can be hidden in the cabinet more easily.

Again, i have not installed the Troptronic, so i cannot advise the effectiveness. Just another option for you to consider.

 

[SPR1968]

This is an old thread, but I've got the 80w DD UVC in my new system and below is a quote from DD which I found useful

Im not sure we’re the minimum flow of 2600 lph is from. Mines currently running at around 1500lph (confirmed by flow monitor) without any issues of over heating the water, and the DD web site states between 1000-4000 lph depending on type of system etc.

D-D UV Sterilisers | D-D The Aquarium Solution

www.theaquariumsolution.com

‘’For water clarity we suggest a U.V intensity of 30,000 microwatt's/sec/sq.cm and our U.V sterilisers are designed to deliver this at the quoted flow/contact rate through the unit.
The mistake that many hobbyists make with our and other manufacturers U.V systems is not getting the flow rate right through the UV and connecting any old pump to it.If flow is increased the bacteria/algae or parasites do not get the correct U.V exposure and many happily pass right through the unit.

This is of some interest when trying to kill the white spot parasite as a greater U.V intensity of 72,000 microwatt's/sec/sq.cm is required to kill it. So with this in mind we have to take the standard flow rate of the unit for 30,000 microwatts and divide it by 2.4 to give you a flow rate for 72,000 microwatts exposure time.’