How many fish?

[Vassal of Ulmo]

Hey all,

Right now I'm studying beginner guides and mapping out a reef tank I might create. I'm thinking 120 gal (48” x 24” x 24”). One thing the beginner guides aren't clear on is how many fish I can expect my hypothetical reef tank to support once it matures, other than that it should be fewer than a freshwater tank. I'm aware that fish temperament, the order the fish are added, filtration, and available habitat are important, but I'm looking for a ballpark figure on fish stocking.

Again this is on paper only, but this is what I've chosen so far. Is this overstocked, too conservative, or about right?
- 1 tang (yellow or purple) - about 8" to 10"
- 1 flame angelfish (rehome it in the off chance it causes problems) - about 4"
- Pair of ocellaris clownfish (or maybe percula) - about 2 x 3" = 6"
- Pair of Banggai cardinalfish - about 2 x 3" = 6"
- 1 shrimp goby - about 2" to 4"
- I'd also like a small school of chromis or anthias, but I'm not sure if I have space, what species to pick, or even if keeping shoaling fish is a good idea.
- Please let me know if you have any other suggestions. I want all of my fish to be compatible with each other, with corals, with shrimp and crabs, and ideally with a mandarin in case I choose to add one many years down the road.

This adds up to about 26" to 30", plus that small chromis or anthias school.

 

[twentyleagues]

I dont think its over stocked. The school or shoal may be a bit much. More issues with possible compatibility than having to many fish imo. I had luck with 6 talbots damsels they didnt bother other fish or kill each other, If I remember correctly they only get around 3". I wouldnt do anthias in a 4' tank.

 

[AydenLincoln]

A few things. One throw away the stupid inch rule for saltwater tanks. It shouldn’t even be a thing in freshwater. Just because a 10 inch fish fits in a 20-gallon tank does not mean it’s an appropriate home. Secondly I would do one or the other for schooling fish not both and personally would avoid both anthias and chromis due to disease and feeding needs for a beginner. Other than that your stocking list looks great! Keep in mind your aquascape, fish’s sizes, bioload, filtration setup, and tank type because this will affect how many fish you can have and what types you can have. Filefish can be trios and so can two females to one male anthias. But I would personally choose a different fish. May I suggest a wrasse?

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

I dont think its over stocked. The school or shoal may be a bit much. More issues with possible compatibility than having to many fish imo. I had luck with 6 talbots damsels they didnt bother other fish or kill each other, If I remember correctly they only get around 3". I wouldnt do anthias in a 4' tank.

Are anthias too active for a 4' tank?

Damselfish are pretty little fish, especially yellowtail damselfish, but my biggest concern is that they're listed as semi-aggressive. Any thoughts on compatibility with the other fish I listed above and with aquarium invertebrates?

 

[michigan-reef]

I think the stocking list looks ok, that is assuming you have very good nutrient export. I personally like to stay on the conservative side so I would probably not include the shoal of chromis or anthias.

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

A few things. One throw away the stupid inch rule for saltwater tanks. It shouldn’t even be a thing in freshwater. Just because a 10 inch fish fits in a 20-gallon tank does not mean it’s an appropriate home. Secondly I would do one or the other for schooling fish not both and personally would avoid both anthias and chromis due to disease and feeding needs for a beginner. Other than that your stocking list looks great! Keep in mind your aquascape, fish’s sizes, bioload, filtration setup, and tank type because this will affect how many fish you can have and what types you can have. Filefish can be trios and so can two females to one male anthias. But I would personally choose a different fish. May I suggest a wrasse?

Thanks for the tip. There are a lot of stunning wrasse species out there, but it looks like even with "reef-safe" wrasses I have to wade through a sea of considerations about their compatibility with other fish, with members of their own species, and with aquarium invertebrates. Could I keep a small group of six-line wrasse, flasher wrasse, or fairy wrasse?

 

[Doctorgori]

I'd also like a small school of chromis or anthias, but I'm not sure if I have space, what species to pick, or even if keeping shoaling fish is a good idea.

If you are going to have issue, here is where it would be…

You will need to carefully source your anthia, many come in emeciated and sometimes with uronema

There are a few threads on keeping chromis, but are we talking about the ubiquitous Blue Greens from the pacific or the browns and dark blues Reef chromis from the Atlantic?
,,,the greens can self destruct and often come in with uronema…The Atlantics seem less disease prone but also self destruct and seem to only school when young

if you can pull it off IMO a school of fish “naturalizes” the look… Again, those chromis threads might be of use

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

If you are going to have issue, here is where it would be…

You will need to carefully source your anthia, many come in emeciated and sometimes with uronema

There are a few threads on keeping chromis, but are we talking about the ubiquitous Blue Greens from the pacific or the browns and dark blues Reef chromis from the Atlantic?
,,,the greens can self destruct and often come in with uronema…The Atlantics seem less disease prone but also self destruct and seem to only school when young

if you can pull it off IMO a school of fish “naturalizes” the look… Again, those chromis threads might be of use

It looks like you're right. Chromis can kill each other off.

If it were up to you, how would you finish the list below? Nothing that'll eat my clean-up crew, please.

- 1 tang (yellow or purple)
- 1 flame angelfish
- Pair of ocellaris clownfish
- Pair of Banggai cardinalfish
- 1 shrimp goby
- ...

 

[Doctorgori]

That’s actually a nice list,
Fire fish school, but they seem to slowly disappear also …
There are a few types of schooling cardinals…my bangais seemed to always pair up then destruct

you got some room….if it were me:
Marine Betta
Fuzzy dwarf lion
Flasher wrasse
pair of Lamark or maybe swallowtails
pyramid butterfly
Trio of basslets (gramma, chalk, black cap) these do school
Trio of cherubs ( might conflict with flame, might not)

 

[Jekyl]

Stocking has less to do with tank size and nutrient export as it does sufficient rock work and places for those fish to call their own home.

Without seeing a pic of the tank first all advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

That’s actually a nice list,
Fire fish school, but they seem to slowly disappear also …
There are a few types of schooling cardinals…my bangais seemed to always pair up then destruct

you got some room….if it were me:
Marine Betta
Fuzzy dwarf lion
Flasher wrasse
pair of Lamark or maybe swallowtails
pyramid butterfly
Trio of basslets (gramma, chalk, black cap) these do school
Trio of cherubs ( might conflict with flame, might not)

Thanks for the tips. This is a 120 gal, so I assume you mean that I should pick some but not all of these options. Here are my initial thoughts.
- A pyramid butterflyfish sounds like an exciting option, assuming I have space.
- A small group of pajama cardinals (instead of the Banggai pair) plus a small group of Carpenter's flasher wrasse is an interesting option, assuming I have space.
- I was under the impression that royal gamma basslets and cherub angelfish had to be housed without others of their own species.

Thoughts?

 

[Jyeef]

From what I've found, and my list, its 1/2" per gallon of full adult fish size. The only one I'd be really concerned with is your tank in 4' of swimming space. I'm sure others have done it, and I did end up with a foxface (9"ish fully grown) that is only 4" right now. Rockwork is going to make the biggest difference with that angelfish (and others)

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

Stocking has less to do with tank size and nutrient export as it does sufficient rock work and places for those fish to call their own home.

Without seeing a pic of the tank first all advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

The tank in question exists only on paper since I'm trying to do my research before making expensive mistakes. Sorry for the confusion.

What are your suggestions for nutrient export and rock work? On paper, I have a sump and aquascaped dry rock.

 

[CKW]

Less is often better! Go slow, research. And enjoy each addition.

 

[Naekuh]

small school of chromis is almost impossible.

Ive seen maybe less then 5 people that actually pulled it off.
Most occasions they will kill each other off, and i have tried with mixing different types of chromis as well.

Your much better going anthias.... bartlets stay small, lyres are a bit aggressive to each other, carberryi and dispar's are also good choices.

Make sure the Tang and Angel are the last fishes you put into the tank.
So if you do go anthias put them the same time as the angel since its being rehomed, and put the Tang last.

Also id recommend a foxface. These guys will work there mouth off picking off every algae they see on rocks and stuff. I completely recommend them, in any tank that can support them as they are one of the best worker you can possibly get next to wrasses and picking off worms.

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

From what I've found, and my list, its 1/2" per gallon of full adult fish size. The only one I'd be really concerned with is your tank in 4' of swimming space. I'm sure others have done it, and I did end up with a foxface (9"ish fully grown) that is only 4" right now. Rockwork is going to make the biggest difference with that angelfish (and others)

That 4' comment is very insightful. A fish marketed as having a 125 gal minimum tank size - like a purple tang or pyramid butterflyfish - is probably off limits, not because I'm 5 gal short but because the dimensions and swimming room are completely different.

I was leaning towards 120 gal because the BRS beginner guides suggested that newbies pick either 40 gal breeder, 60 gal, or 120 gal.

 

[Jekyl]

The tank in question exists only on paper since I'm trying to do my research before making expensive mistakes. Sorry for the confusion.

What are your suggestions for nutrient export and rock work? On paper, I have a sump and aquascaped dry rock.

Every cave, pass through etc can be considered place for 1 fish or pair. So less rock = less fish.

 

[Vassal of Ulmo]

small school of chromis is almost impossible.

Ive seen maybe less then 5 people that actually pulled it off.
Most occasions they will kill each other off, and i have tried with mixing different types of chromis as well.

Your much better going anthias.... bartlets stay small, lyres are a bit aggressive to each other, carberryi and dispar's are also good choices.

Make sure the Tang and Angel are the last fishes you put into the tank.
So if you do go anthias put them the same time as the angel since its being rehomed, and put the Tang last.

Also id recommend a foxface. These guys will work there mouth off picking off every algae they see on rocks and stuff. I completely recommend them, in any tank that can support them as they are one of the best worker you can possibly get next to wrasses and picking off worms.

A small shoal of 3-5 carberryi anthias could be a cool option. Do they have any serious health or longevity issues? Some of the other commenters had concerns about anthias.

 

[Naekuh]

A small shoal of 3-5 carberryi anthias could be a cool option. Do they have any serious health or longevity issues? Some of the other commenters had concerns about anthias.

besides being hard to find, carberryi is probably my favorate.

They started eatting freeze dried faster then my lyretails.

However you probably really want a foxface for a 120g.

 

[PharmrJohn]

Old school rules were 1 inch per 3 gallons. Kind of surprised at the 2 votes so far identifying the limit as 1 inch per 2 gallons. Have things changed? I mean, if it has, I'm all for it!