How stable does stable have to be to be stable?

[glb]

Day 6:

Mg: 1340ppm (no change)
Ca: 450ppm (no change)
Alk: 166ppm (+16ppm)
Ph: 8.1!

Things are getting more stable! The alk after adding c. 40ppm seems to have lost 24ppm yesterday. Yesterday's reading: 150+40ppm added minus 24ppm = today's reading of 166. I added 4.5 ml more of reef fusion 2. Today's alk is equiv to 9.2kh. Tomorrow's may be a bit high. It looks like I'll be dosing for about 20-24ppm alk daily once I'm where I need to be.

As an added bonus, my ph is up to 8.1! Things are looking good! Stay tuned for tomorrow's results!

 

[Zero Nitrates]

Awesome!

 

[glb]

Awesome!

Thanks!

 

[glb]

Day 7:

Mg: 1480ppm (+120ppm). Very weird
Ca: 400ppm (-50)
Alk: 175ppm (+25)
Ph: 8.0 (-.1)

The mg I can't figure out because I didn't add any yesterday. I hope it was a testing error. I'll try again tomorrow.

The ca is down but still normal.

The alk is c. 9.8kh. It was up 25. So if I added 40ppm yesterday, 15 ppm would have been depleted. I'm not going to add any reef fusion today and see what happens tomorrow.

I'll also do a water change tomorrow. 1-2g depending on what the nitrates are. I'm also going to test my seawater over the weekend to see what my starting point is. I hope this is helpful to a few of you!

 

[glb]

Day 8

I tested for everything:

Temp: 78 (same)
Ph: 7.9 (-.1)
NO3: 10ppm (same)
PO4: .16ppm. Oh no!
Alk: 169 (-6ppm)
Mg: 1300ppm (-40ppm from 2 days ago-didn't count yesterday's test. Had to have been off)
Ca: 400ppm

So, it seems that my mg is depleting at 20ppm/day and my alk at 6ppm/day. I added 1ml of Reef Fusion 2 to add 6ppm of alk and 5ml mg to add 13ppm mg.

I'll check again tomorrow before I change the water to see if my calculations are right.

I'm not sure what to do about the phosphates. Any suggestions? Remember, I have a nano.

See everyone tomorrow!

 

[glb]

Lessons learned so far from my stability experiment:

My tank does require dosing. Since I'm using natural seawater, things like alk will be lower and since I have low ph, I need to bounce up the alk to the seawater before I add it. Same with mg.

My corals and fish must be very hardy. I had no idea until I got good test kits how much my numbers moved around. My tank isn't nearly as stable as I thought. At least now I'm on the road to doing better!

I never knew I had phosphates! Now a new problem to solve thanks to my hanna checker.

I will never be able to have sps in my nano! Not that I was planning on it, but this has proven to me that a nano's numbers bounce around way too much. I guess in some ways ignorance is bliss.

As careful as I am, I can almost guarantee that some of my test results were wrong, probably due to errors on my part. I don't completely trust my numbers yet, but I'll start with a dosing schedule to maintain my numbers and adjust as needed. After 9 straight days tomorrow, no more daily testing! I'm tired!

Buy good test kits! This has made such a difference in my numbers. Buy them before you buy your first coral! Hanna checkers are an initial investment but worth every penny, especially for alk and phosphate! Red Sea pro for mg, salifert for no3, and Red Sea for ca. I'll probably upgrade to Red Sea pro ca.

I know why people buy dosers now!

With all my new knowledge I'll be much more on top of things with my tank.

 

[mcarroll]

Great summary and great experiment! You're a reefer after my own heart! LOL.

As far as "trusting your numbers" I'd just practice, practice, practice....and consider this:

If you look at the accuracy and precision inherent to the test kits we use (usually printed in the manual or on the box) you'll realize that they are neither all that accurate or precise (in the grand scheme of water testing) - even the checkers. They are "good enough" though, which is fine.

While it's more or less important to follow instructions (more-so in the digital kits), once you get those down the most important thing is that you are consistent in how you perform your tests. Consistent testing gives you consistent test numbers. Getting consistent results is where 100% of the utility comes in for us which is how we know the extent of changes that are happening and what doses/water changes are needed to make up for them.

For example, we don't really care that our calcium is 361 ppm or if it's actually, precisely 362 ppm. What we really care about is that no matter how accurate or precise our numbers, our corals look best when we test the water to be 420 ppm...and 361 ppm is a 59 ppm drop. The -59 ppm is pretty correct in spite of the limits of the tests we are running....which is why it's alright for the kits not to be that accurate or precise and why you shouldn't worry too much about your numbers once you know you're doing the tests correctly.

This is all very in-a-nutshell, but I hope it helps!

-Matt

P.S. I would try out Salifert's Ca and Mg kits someday...I found the results comparable to the Red Sea's Pro kits within reason but they are more user friendly IMO.

 

[glb]

Great summary and great experiment! You're a reefer after my own heart! LOL.

As far as "trusting your numbers" I'd just practice, practice, practice....and consider this:

If you look at the accuracy and precision inherent to the test kits we use (usually printed in the manual or on the box) you'll realize that they are neither all that accurate or precise (in the grand scheme of water testing) - even the checkers. They are "good enough" though, which is fine.

While it's more or less important to follow instructions (more-so in the digital kits), once you get those down the most important thing is that you are consistent in how you perform your tests. Consistent testing gives you consistent test numbers. Getting consistent results is where 100% of the utility comes in for us which is how we know the extent of changes that are happening and what doses/water changes are needed to make up for them.

For example, we don't really care that our calcium is 361 ppm or if it's actually, precisely 362 ppm. What we really care about is that no matter how accurate or precise our numbers, our corals look best when we test the water to be 420 ppm...and 361 ppm is a 59 ppm drop. The -59 ppm is pretty correct in spite of the limits of the tests we are running....which is why it's alright for the kits not to be that accurate or precise and why you shouldn't worry too much about your numbers once you know you're doing the tests correctly.

This is all very in-a-nutshell, but I hope it helps!

-Matt

P.S. I would try out Salifert's Ca and Mg kits someday...I found the results comparable to the Red Sea's Pro kits within reason but they are more user friendly IMO.

Thanks Matt! Excellent advice. The stability of the testing technique and watching for the changes and not the specific numbers makes a lot of sense. And I do think I'll try salifert for mg and ca when I run out. That Red Sea mg kit is an ordeal!

 

[Zero Nitrates]

Thanks for sharing your experiment!

 

[glb]

Well, I tested my seawater from the store and what I found was interesting:

Ph: 7.8.
Mg: 1320ppm
Alk: 127ppm , c. 7.1kh
Ca: 450
SG: 1.026

Well, now I know where my low ph and alk problems come from. Everything is spot on for seawater except the ph. That I cannot figure out. I wish I had tested this water a long time ago! I've been pulling out my hair trying to figure out why my ph was low and it was my source water! Guess I'll dose the seawater before I put it in from now on. I'm wondering if, in the name of stability, I should use salt mix instead of seawater. Any thoughts?

 

[mcarroll]

Using a salt mix that comes with the numbers you wish to target is recommended for ease and stability, but there's no reason you can't test+amend every batch you make - people do that too. Obviously this puts you on the hook for more work per water change, but if you are OK with that it's a fine strategy. (Even a fine temporary strategy.)

-Matt

 

[Zero Nitrates]

I would like to see information on how all the different salt mixes test.

 

[glb]

I would like to see information on how all the different salt mixes test.

Me too.

 

[glb]

Well, I treated the seawater to match the tank water and did a 1g water change. I've been adding 5ml mg daily and 1.5ml reef fusion 2 to maintain alk. I'll test those two numbers in a day or two to see if my calculations are correct. I'll continue to dose the seawater I have, but when I run out, I'm thinking of getting salt mix instead, which would be more stable IMO.

 

[glb]

Update: I tested the water today, two days after a one gallon dosed water change. Here's what I got:
Alk: 213, c. 11.9
ph: 8.0
Mg: 1280
Ca: 400
The alk reading really surprised me. I guess I'm dosing too much. Next time I'll test after the water change for the tank alk and start from there
The ph is staying a bit higher since I started dosing for alk
Mg was about right. I dosed 10ml mg to raise it 26ppm
Ca as usual doesn't ever get low.
The good news is that I think my zoas are growing again! I think the problem was the crabs, who now have a new home, but I think the improved water chemistry is helping too. What I'm learning from this experiment is that things change quickly in a nano, and I want to stay somewhere in the middle of the normal range to make up for test mistakes and over or underdosing. I'll test the alk again tomorrow to see how much it drops. I'll probably skip mg and ca, as they aren't really giving me any problems.

 

[glb]

Alk today was 197ppm, down 16ppm from yesterday. It should be around 181 tomorrow. I'm thinking about keeping it around 175.

 

[glb]

Big testing day. After a one gallon water change, here are my numbers:

NO3: 10ppm
Ph: 7.9
SG: 1.0265
Temp: 78
Alk: 170ppm
Mg: 1380ppm
Ca: 400ppm
PO4: 0.06ppm

These are the best numbers I've had! I'm not sure why the mg is high but I'll keep an eye on it. I want to keep the alk around 175ppm so I added 2ml of reef fusion 2 to raise it 11.8ppm. I'll check it again tomorrow.

It seems my experiment is a success! It's taking longer than I thought to regulate things but it seems to be working. My advice to anyone new is don't buy any expensive corals until you have a stable tank! I don't buy anything that's high-priced yet and that lowers my stress!

 

[Hampton]

Well done and great advice. This is a great thread for people to reference back to when their numbers get out if wack.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[glb]

Well done and great advice. This is a great thread for people to reference back to when their numbers get out if wack.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Thanks! It's been a great learning experience for me!

 

[alliecat]

Maybe I'm just whimsical, but to me a "stable" tank just is, and has nothing to do with params. It's when your tank gets to that point where the water looks crisp and clear, the algae is minimal if at all present, corals look amazing, fish and other inverts are healthy, and coralline is growing steadily. To me "stable" takes a long time, it's not just the end of an initial setup/cycle. It's when everything in the tank is just at an equilibrium. I have a 2.5 year old tank that has been stable in my opinion since maybe its 6th month in operation (20 gal), and my 1.5 yr old 55- i looked at it yesterday and thought, ya know, everything is finally "perfect" (after going through several bouts of algal blooms). My biocube has been up since may and although the params test out fine, to me it just isnt "there". Everything is healthy, but it just doesnt have that "look", if anyone can relate. Maybe I'm just a lazy reefer, but I seldom test my tanks once they're truly "stable", and cut water changes to a minimum. Don't fix what isnt broke i guess... sorry to get all philosophical lol