Probably. I’d be ill tempered if I were in an experiment with 50% mortality.
Agree-realistically I don’t think this will be done, especially with the ornamental species aquarists favor. But there is still the technical possibility that Prime somehow detoxifies ammonia. It is not always easy or practical to prove a negative.
I do not know. I've not seen anyone track ammonia levels in an uncycled tank.
www.reef2reef.com
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ok here you go:
The amount of ammonia was highly variable - these inverts shipping bags end up with very different amounts of ammonia under these conditions.
Mini ceriths, big ceriths, and the racquetball sized rock urchins had:
a) 0 - 1 ppm total ammonia
The crabs and ping-pong ball sized pincushion urchins bags had:
b) 1-3 ppm total ammonia
The turbos water, however blew up the test. Off the charts and I had to do 1/2 and 1/4 dilutions (2nd pic) to get an estimate.
Not to be too precise here - Let's call turbo bag 1 on the left maybe 15-25 ppm, and Turbo bag 2 on the right around 10-15 ppm.
so two bags of small turbos, 2 snails in each bag were:
d) 10-30 ppm
(I sanity checked these with some NH3 films, so no API griping allowed.)
the pH in these sample bags was around 7.6-7.8 for the lowest ammonia values, 7.5-7.6 for the medium ammonia values and 7.4-7.5 for the high ammonia Turbo bags.
The bags were not warm, essentially room temp 72, so this puts the Free ammonia - NH3 in the ballpark of 0.1 to 0.3 ppm NH3 in the turbo bags.
Don't paint with too broad brush here. Some animals will generate and survive lots of ammonia short term. Others generate very little. Some might be more sensitive. Also, they did not sit at these ammonia levels for a whole day - the ammonia climbed from zero to this level gradually over ~28 hours.
So how much of this is just confusion about what the tests are measuring? A reefer runs a test and reads 10ppm ammonia and panics - not realizing it was a measure of total ammonia, and their free ammonia is actually the much less immediately deadly 0.5ppm.
fritzaquatics.com
the point of my post is nobody really knows when their ammonia hits toxic levels, because the testers we use can be found in searches showing complete misreads for pages/years
for example, regarding toxicity, see this red sea ammonia kit misread collection. it's 9 pages and not one tank, not one single tank, was in peril, they're all misreads/see the thread analyses
I would love to see an input source for any single example for the dangerous ammonia claimed here:
Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads
The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...
*its not that those tanks had an ammonia spike, and the toxicity was below ld50 for the animals, it's that they did NOT have a spike, and thought they did and were trained to believe their test kit no matter what, without any context verification whatsoever.
the point of posting that thread is to show that reefers don't actually know much about their ammonia levels until they get the right kit.
on that note, are there any nine page seneye false ammonia reading threads? anywhere on the entire internet? hmm...
if we just stop challenging stated test results, and accept anyone's stated ammonia event as fact, new cycling science will die back and old cycling science/panic training/will continue to be the standard everyone uses.
I have never seen any thread in all of reefing where reefers are challenged on there ammonia levels other than the ones I have linked. we are all trained in reefing to simply accept whatever a test kit says, regardless of context, regardless of the truth.
sustained ammonia spikes in display tanks are larks, falsies, and don't occur unless something very rare happens (such as the recent post where a lot of bleach got into the tank)
it's clear from our 9 page analysis thread not any poster had a source of impact, they merely had a red sea kit showing some nh4 and then they flipped out while believing that kit. that, is old cycling science.
Some, certainly, but most reefers seem to just think that 2 ppm total ammonia is deadly, and the companies peddling ammonia binders feed into that idea.
The Fritz ammonia binder, for example,
Fritz A.C.C.R. Liquid
Fritz Aquatics' Fritz A.C.C.R. Liquid is a water conditioner for aquariums used to neutralize toxic ammonia, chlorine and chloramines found in tap water.
Use 1 cap (1 tsp/5 ml) per 10 U.S. gallons (38 L). Using this dosage, 1.0 mg/L ammonia will be instantly eliminated...or in emergency situations with very high ammonia levels, dosage can be safely increased or repeated up to 5x.
- Detoxifies up to 1 ppm Ammonia per dose
- Overdosed? It is safe to increase dosage up to 5x. Observe livestock for distress, perform small water changes if needed
So by the Fritz info, one could not ever save livestock from dying because it is only useful up to 5 ppm ammonia.
Some, certainly, but most reefers seem to just think that 2 ppm total ammonia is deadly, and the companies peddling ammonia binders feed into that idea.
The Fritz ammonia binder, for example,
Fritz A.C.C.R. Liquid
Fritz Aquatics' Fritz A.C.C.R. Liquid is a water conditioner for aquariums used to neutralize toxic ammonia, chlorine and chloramines found in tap water.
Use 1 cap (1 tsp/5 ml) per 10 U.S. gallons (38 L). Using this dosage, 1.0 mg/L ammonia will be instantly eliminated...or in emergency situations with very high ammonia levels, dosage can be safely increased or repeated up to 5x.
- Detoxifies up to 1 ppm Ammonia per dose
- Overdosed? It is safe to increase dosage up to 5x. Observe livestock for distress, perform small water changes if needed
So by the Fritz info, one could not ever save livestock from dying because it is only useful up to 5 ppm ammonia.
