I need a little advice on a couple of things please
- Thread starter robs.mark
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I didn't either,
You would be very surprised how much P04 your tank consumes, I have been logging my experience, and am recently, since my upgrade, a huge proponent of keeping stable nutrients. In my 90 gallon, loaded with coral, 12 fish, feeding 3 cubes a day, my tank still requires 5ml of neo Nitro, and 10ml of Seachem phosphorus to register 5ppm N03, and 0.08-.12ppm P04. Sand is less than 2 months old. Rock is 3 years wet, some 10 years. I absolutely would echo the same sentiment, until I tried it. Glad I did, my corals are exploding!
Panama Brown
Community Member
TBH when I wrote about increased feeding it was in retrospect to lower No3 values. But after looking at your initial post it just says that testing was done but you didn't list a No3 value. I think I have/had it in my head that youre battling loss of color from low nutrients of the No3 kind, NOT Po3. Does that make sense?
I believe you have heightened Po4 that isn't being shown on your tests because of algae soaking up the available Po4 nutrients. With that said the GFO reactor or Po4 remover would clean up whats available, especially after you manually remove the existing algae. Im no trained chemist but in my head / experience this works.
The million $ question though is what is causing these elevated Po4 levels / low No3.... Carbon dosing mixed with heavy feeding? Improper nutrient exportation (GFO/Skimmer/Fuge). Personally I don't do water changes so for me, thats my reasoning for elevated nutrients, but with proper exportation and reefing practices this is an easy one to overcome. IMO
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Above^
Exactly...
And, it's suggested that bacteria do a tremendous job of out-competing P04 in the water column, and anecdotal evidence suggests that bacteria is in fact consumed by corals. That said, simply adding multiple bacteria sources, while having registered P04, could in fact get the P04 to corals, versus algae. In the OP's case, perhaps P04 is being consumed by algae, and maybe, bacteria is 2nd in line, instead of 1st in line for P04 consumption. So, if bacteria is consumed by corals, then they are feeding on P04, but through bacteria as the conduit, in this example, corals now out compete nuisance algae for P04 absorption, thus starving algae, and allowing maximum absorption of nutrients. Hmmm.... maybe?
Just worth mentioning
Exactly...
And, it's suggested that bacteria do a tremendous job of out-competing P04 in the water column, and anecdotal evidence suggests that bacteria is in fact consumed by corals. That said, simply adding multiple bacteria sources, while having registered P04, could in fact get the P04 to corals, versus algae. In the OP's case, perhaps P04 is being consumed by algae, and maybe, bacteria is 2nd in line, instead of 1st in line for P04 consumption. So, if bacteria is consumed by corals, then they are feeding on P04, but through bacteria as the conduit, in this example, corals now out compete nuisance algae for P04 absorption, thus starving algae, and allowing maximum absorption of nutrients. Hmmm.... maybe?
Just worth mentioning
OP
OP
robs.mark
Active Member
Both very reasonable assumptions, I’ll grab an No3 test kit this weekend and see where that’s at too. Thanks.Above^
Exactly...
And, it's suggested that bacteria do a tremendous job of out-competing P04 in the water column, and anecdotal evidence suggests that bacteria is in fact consumed by corals. That said, simply adding multiple bacteria sources, while having registered P04, could in fact get the P04 to corals, versus algae. In the OP's case, perhaps P04 is being consumed by algae, and maybe, bacteria is 2nd in line, instead of 1st in line for P04 consumption. So, if bacteria is consumed by corals, then they are feeding on P04, but through bacteria as the conduit, in this example, corals now out compete nuisance algae for P04 absorption, thus starving algae, and allowing maximum absorption of nutrients. Hmmm.... maybe?
Just worth mentioning
FWIW, I am, to a degree, an old school reefer, 16 years at keeping sps, noone, not a single person could convince me that 0.00 on both wasn't a great thing. Then, I just sort of went with my eyes, and in many cases, I had success. But, I didn't test anything, and thought my eyes were superior to modern insight. Maybe in the day of imported fiji rock, but in todays standard of dry rock, I had to re-learn this hobby. Things have shifted, and I now believe that nutrients are good, again, given the appropriate circumstances where something, rock, sand, algae, bacteria, etc, are all competing for said nutrients. With old school rock, it was truly, set it and forget it, so much copius life, out-competing any algae that tried to form, given low nutrients, but were they really low? Could all this life, and copious amounts of bacteria be self balancing? Not sure, but a shift in the hobby happened when "true live rock from fiji" became unavailable. Then Haitian rock became unavailable, leaving hobbyists with little options. Tested nutrients really mean nothing, it's the throughput of nutrients that matters. Things to consider I suppose
BostonReefer300
Valuable Member
As an old school reefer myself, I still can't believe that I keep stuff on hand to INCREASE my NO3 and PO4. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone sometimesFWIW, I am, to a degree, an old school reefer, 16 years at keeping sps, noone, not a single person could convince me that 0.00 on both wasn't a great thing. Then, I just sort of went with my eyes, and in many cases, I had success. But, I didn't test anything, and thought my eyes were superior to modern insight. Maybe in the day of imported fiji rock, but in todays standard of dry rock, I had to re-learn this hobby. Things have shifted, and I now believe that nutrients are good, again, given the appropriate circumstances where something, rock, sand, algae, bacteria, etc, are all competing for said nutrients. With old school rock, it was truly, set it and forget it, so much copius life, out-competing any algae that tried to form, given low nutrients, but were they really low? Could all this life, and copious amounts of bacteria be self balancing? Not sure, but a shift in the hobby happened when "true live rock from fiji" became unavailable. Then Haitian rock became unavailable, leaving hobbyists with little options. Tested nutrients really mean nothing, it's the throughput of nutrients that matters. Things to consider I suppose
Lol, me too like completely bewildered at times, but.... I guess old dogs can learn new tricks
OP
OP
robs.mark
Active Member
It seems complete left field to me too.. a decade ago I would have jumped for joy with zeros across the board.FWIW, I am, to a degree, an old school reefer, 16 years at keeping sps, noone, not a single person could convince me that 0.00 on both wasn't a great thing. Then, I just sort of went with my eyes, and in many cases, I had success. But, I didn't test anything, and thought my eyes were superior to modern insight. Maybe in the day of imported fiji rock, but in todays standard of dry rock, I had to re-learn this hobby. Things have shifted, and I now believe that nutrients are good, again, given the appropriate circumstances where something, rock, sand, algae, bacteria, etc, are all competing for said nutrients. With old school rock, it was truly, set it and forget it, so much copius life, out-competing any algae that tried to form, given low nutrients, but were they really low? Could all this life, and copious amounts of bacteria be self balancing? Not sure, but a shift in the hobby happened when "true live rock from fiji" became unavailable. Then Haitian rock became unavailable, leaving hobbyists with little options. Tested nutrients really mean nothing, it's the throughput of nutrients that matters. Things to consider I suppose
Without a doubt, my first priority is to get this algae out of the tank. Once I get a true reading on my nutrients I can see whats what. I’m going to knock my Radions down 10% today, and I’ve ordered some Vibrant. Slow and steady.
Careful. Vibrant is a carbon source, I think, a shot of micro bacter, and dr. Tims waste away might, in your case be more appropriate. Carbon sources can unfortunately create a monoculture. Just saying...
Edit- I should preface 1st, that carbon source w/o a strong bacterial field, could lead to a monoculture. FWIW
OP
OP
robs.mark
Active Member
I’ll use the minimum dose and monitor closely. By all accounts this product seems like the best bet to combat this algae.
I’ll step up feeding in the mean time and test the system frequently.
BostonReefer300
Valuable Member
I'd urge caution on using Vibrant. When I got serious about putting in SPS into my tank finally and, therefore, started dosing nutrients to get mine to "optimal" levels, I overshot and ended up with algae problems. I used Vibrant and GFO to reduce algae and next thing you know I had tanked my nutrients and had a huge dino explosion. Vibrant DEFINITELY works as advertised on algae---but it can work too well IMO especially when you also run GFO, do water changes, and/or use other nutrient export/control methods. Problem with Vibrant is that you can't just "turn it off" like you can with GFO for instance. It persists for who knows how long but at least a month I'd guess. It's also competing with other bacteria in your tank, so you've also got that as a variable.
Your tank looks pretty good to me and, frankly, some fuzz algae is nothing to worry about IMO. It's just a great excuse to add a couple cool herbivorous fish and some cool CUC members. If it's really bothering you, do a 10% water change once a week for a month in addition to adding helpful livestock. If that's still not doing it, run a small amount of GFO (but carefully monitor your PO4 if you can with Hanna HI736 ULR PHOSPHORUS). Be prepared to stop GFO immediately if you see first sign of dinos.
I've seen some train wreck algae issues in my day and your tank hasn't even left the station on that front so to speak
Your tank looks pretty good to me and, frankly, some fuzz algae is nothing to worry about IMO. It's just a great excuse to add a couple cool herbivorous fish and some cool CUC members. If it's really bothering you, do a 10% water change once a week for a month in addition to adding helpful livestock. If that's still not doing it, run a small amount of GFO (but carefully monitor your PO4 if you can with Hanna HI736 ULR PHOSPHORUS). Be prepared to stop GFO immediately if you see first sign of dinos.
I've seen some train wreck algae issues in my day and your tank hasn't even left the station on that front so to speak
Panama Brown
Community Member
Ill second that ^
Vibrant does work. I know from experience. However when youre done with it, theres a chance you will spark a whole new algae issue. Personally... If algae gets out of control and you find yourself behind the ball on your nutrient export... Make a 50/50 solution of tank water and hydrogen peroxide and dip / scrub your rock with a old toothbrush and watch that rock come clean real quick. Atleast with Cyano and GHA, I KNOW this works.... Wash it off in some extra tank water before putting back your display and within a day or two that algae will be gone. From there run that GFO and keep your nutrients down. Obviously if you don't have the proper CUC in place theres a chance algae may try to reappear but if you got a good crew, theyll clean up whatever you missed on the rock.... Just a thought.
Assuming youre even able to remove your rock and dip it. Looks like you might have everything glued down. If thats the case disregard this entire post lol
Vibrant does work. I know from experience. However when youre done with it, theres a chance you will spark a whole new algae issue. Personally... If algae gets out of control and you find yourself behind the ball on your nutrient export... Make a 50/50 solution of tank water and hydrogen peroxide and dip / scrub your rock with a old toothbrush and watch that rock come clean real quick. Atleast with Cyano and GHA, I KNOW this works.... Wash it off in some extra tank water before putting back your display and within a day or two that algae will be gone. From there run that GFO and keep your nutrients down. Obviously if you don't have the proper CUC in place theres a chance algae may try to reappear but if you got a good crew, theyll clean up whatever you missed on the rock.... Just a thought.
Assuming youre even able to remove your rock and dip it. Looks like you might have everything glued down. If thats the case disregard this entire post lol
OP
OP
robs.mark
Active Member
I went to the LFS today and picked up a Salifert NO3 test kit - as expected it showed zero.
I also picked up 5 medium size hermits, to my surprise they ripped straight into the lobophora.
I will hold of a few weeks and see what damage they do to it.
I also picked up two fish and some phytoplankto. Hopefully increasing the feeding will show some nutrients, if not I’ll look as dosing some.
I also picked up 5 medium size hermits, to my surprise they ripped straight into the lobophora.
I will hold of a few weeks and see what damage they do to it.
I also picked up two fish and some phytoplankto. Hopefully increasing the feeding will show some nutrients, if not I’ll look as dosing some.
blasterman
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My 20L has piles of montipora growing in it and they chew through phosphate like my grandpa went through PBR.
I have to dose phosphate. I can't just "feed more" because it runs nitrate too high.
In addition to the fine comments about real ocean rock, our test kits were mostly HIGH range test kits IIRC. We weren't really measuring PO4 in parts per billion in my olden days.
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