ICH treatment non copper.

[Midknightskie]

So in the process of trying to educate myself I read a few articles on the life cycle of this parasite. Seems it forms a cyst on the host fish then once free from the cyst it attaches its self somewhere else in the tank. At this point it forms some kind of sack then once free from it will move about the tank looking for a host again. So I thought it would be futile to even QT a fish as the parasite is already infected the tank by the time you notice signs. So treating the tank is really the only sure way to fight it.

So my question to other larger tank owners who have a reef setup with LPS inverts and SPS. Do any of you just treat your whole tank and what do you use? I found this and thought it could work, Thanks for any input.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Ruby_Ree...tent=RR11163&gclid=CMLwsZnEjtICFU2SfgodZ78EfA

 

[VelasCorals]

If you remove all your fish and keep your tank fallow for 12 weeks then you have a sure bet to rid your tank of ich all together. Just remember, without a fish host, ich cannot survive.

 

[Maritimer]

I tried Kick-Ich once ... and lost some corals pretty quickly. Still have that bottle . . .

Incredible Corals is right - whatever will kill (and I mean _kill_, not discomfort!) ich, will also kill a lot - if not all - of your corals and inverts. There are two methods folks use to quarantine - Tank Transfer Method (AKA TTM) which works against ich _only_ and requires a decent amount of work, and 30+ days in a copper or Chloroquine Phosphate (requires a prescription) treatment to take out both ich and velvet. (Velvet's even nastier than ich - I hope you never have it to deal with!) My personal preference is for chelated copper, such as Coppersafe, and an API copper test kit to monitor actual levels in the tank.

Both of those medicines only work against the phase in the parasite's life cycle where it's actively hunting a new victim, which is why the treatments have to run so long. Once that treatment is done, it's best to observe the fish for a couple of additional weeks to make sure it's healthy before adding it to the display.

~Bruce

 

[Midknightskie]

So really the only way is to transfer your fish over to another tank and let the parasite die off without any host to complete the cycle? Seems like a sure fire way to drive yourself mad. Would mean a guy with a 300 gal tank would need a 200 gal laying around in case things came down to it.

 

[Maritimer]

There's a fellow on the forum who's dealing with just that as I type this - except his tank is something more like 500 gallons. There are more than a few who keep a display, a quarantine for fish, and another for corals and invertebrates. (Fish can be medicated, inverts have to be allowed to hang out in a fish-free environment for 76 days.) Most of the folks who do that are folks (like myself) who've lost an entire display tank worth of fish to a disease we couldn't stop.

If done from the beginning, a much smaller tank - 40-breeder or so - would do the job, one or a few fish at a time. The goal being not to introduce the parasite in the first place. I find that running a quarantine tank gives me time to really get to know the individual fish - I spend as much time watching my QT as I do my display!

~Bruce

 

[Midknightskie]

You guys are being super helpful thank you for all the info. So my next question is those that are religious about QT each fish and item that goes into their tank, do you still get things like ich or you dearly see that? My plan is to use a Red Sea max E-170 as a at and anything that is alive will spend at least the min QT time in there before heading to my display. Time seems like at least 80 days to be sure, I'm a patient guy.

 

[Maritimer]

"Never" is a very long time ... but I started by just dropping fish in my display - and watching them die. Went through a fallow period while treating all my existing fish and have QTd all fish since. I can't guarantee that ich isn't in my tank, because I _didn't_ quarantine inverts (didn't realize how good of an idea that was until more recently), but my fish seem pretty healthy now - and there are more in my tank than there really should be. I'm currently building a new (to me) 220 gallon system, and I think I'm going to run it the first 76 days fallow - just in case - because I'd like to add a couple of Acanthurus tangs down the line, and they're remarkably susceptible.

If you're quarantining everything wet, from liverock to gobies, your chances of introducing communicable disease go from "nearly guaranteed" to "negligible" - but I'm not the guy who ever says "never".

~Bruce

 

[ebushrow]

So really the only way is to transfer your fish over to another tank and let the parasite die off without any host to complete the cycle? Seems like a sure fire way to drive yourself mad. Would mean a guy with a 300 gal tank would need a 200 gal laying around in case things came down to it.

No, that's not true....if you quarantine all fish when you receive them with medication and watch them for 8 weeks...adding them to your display will be safe....you do not need a 200 gallon tank for that....you just need to diligently quarantine all arrivals properly before adding them to the display

 

[Midknightskie]

I just read a great article here on the forum about QT for inverts and corals. Basically seems that I just need a to fully and separately QT fish and corals/inverts. I should not have an issue.

 

[4FordFamily]

So really the only way is to transfer your fish over to another tank and let the parasite die off without any host to complete the cycle? Seems like a sure fire way to drive yourself mad. Would mean a guy with a 300 gal tank would need a 200 gal laying around in case things came down to it.

Yep basically. Not fun I know. Properly qt all incoming fish without wavering and you'll be good to go!

 

[Kilo]

Has anyone used PolypLab Medic? Here's the link:
https://www.polyplab.com/products/medic

Key words from website:
reef-safe oxidizing agent ;
effective against: Marine Ich;
these parasites have an "attached stage (trophonts), a "matured" stage (protomonts, a "reproductive" stage (tomonts), and a "free-swimming" stage (theronts/dinospores).
Our conditioner targets the trophont stage of the parasite but is also disrupting the life cycle during the "free-swimming timeframe - when the oxidative component in the conditioner is particularly effective against theronts/dinospores.

 

[biga1106]

Has anyone used PolypLab Medic? Here's the link:
https://www.polyplab.com/products/medic

Key words from website:
reef-safe oxidizing agent ;
effective against: Marine Ich;
these parasites have an "attached stage (trophonts), a "matured" stage (protomonts, a "reproductive" stage (tomonts), and a "free-swimming" stage (theronts/dinospores).
Our conditioner targets the trophont stage of the parasite but is also disrupting the life cycle during the "free-swimming timeframe - when the oxidative component in the conditioner is particularly effective against theronts/dinospores.

Sounds like this doesn't kill ich completely but it helps in killing free swimmers ?? @Kilo

 

[Maritimer]

I've never personally used that product, but to my knowledge there is simply no reef-safe treatment that will actually kill off ich. There may, however, be some that'll make it fairly uncomfortable for a little while . . .

~Bruce

 

[Brew12]

Has anyone used PolypLab Medic? Here's the link:
https://www.polyplab.com/products/medic

Key words from website:
reef-safe oxidizing agent ;
effective against: Marine Ich;
these parasites have an "attached stage (trophonts), a "matured" stage (protomonts, a "reproductive" stage (tomonts), and a "free-swimming" stage (theronts/dinospores).
Our conditioner targets the trophont stage of the parasite but is also disrupting the life cycle during the "free-swimming timeframe - when the oxidative component in the conditioner is particularly effective against theronts/dinospores.

I haven't heard of anyone who used this, but I would say it looks more promising than most. The basis for its working is scientifically sound and isn't the typical "herbal remedy" that I have seen from most reef safe Ich treatments. Oxidation is effective against Marine Ich but I would question the 10 day treatment. To be on the safe side I think it should be longer.
This is the exact same concept as using Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) as an oxidizer to treat for Marine Ich. We know it works. We just don't know how low of a concentration it can be effective, how long we need to treat with at those levels, and what impact that exposure has on our tank inhabitants long term.