ICP Test Kit Recommendations?

[Jib]

Hello,

I do general water testing, but thought it might be interesting to get a more in depth ICP test done. Seems to be a few companies who do these, so was curious if there are any recommendations or things to consider when selecting a company. I also buy salt and fresh water from the LFS, so was curious in any tests do more than just your tank water. Maybe like tank water, fresh salt water, and your fresh water?

Thanks for the input,

Jib

 

[blaxsun]

Yes, some labs will also test your RODI water as well. If you’re going to the expense of a lab test in the first place you might as well get several water samples tested.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Too many delay issues with Triton lately. Go with :

 

[Jib]

Too many delay issues with Triton lately. Go with :

Thanks for the reccomendation, I'll check it out.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I've used Triton and ATI. I've been happy with both of those. I'm planning to try Aquaforest soon.

 

[Dan_P]

Hello,

I do general water testing, but thought it might be interesting to get a more in depth ICP test done. Seems to be a few companies who do these, so was curious if there are any recommendations or things to consider when selecting a company. I also buy salt and fresh water from the LFS, so was curious in any tests do more than just your tank water. Maybe like tank water, fresh salt water, and your fresh water?

Thanks for the input,

Jib

Here are couple ideas and observations to consider.

1) No vendor will guarantee the analysis they provide. By this I mean they do not tell you how accurate their results are nor how consistent the results will be. This means you are flat out trusting them to do the job right. This is by no means an indictment, just pointing out when you receive an analysis that worries you, your first response should be to wonder what if the analysis is off.

2) The analysis results have a chance to be reasonably consistent for the same vendor, day to day, or from vendor to vendor for elements with concentrations greater than 1000 ppb. Good might be +/- 5-20%. Below that concentration, the trace elements, variability can be large +/- 100% would not be uncommon and elements may or may not be detected. Phosphorous among several other elements seem to be a challenge to get right. This also applies to RO water testing. Some vendors will detect elements while others will not.

In the spirit of transparency, the above comments are based on results from an ongoing research project that @taricha, @Rick Mathew and I are conducting to understand the variability in ICP results. We are also trying to assemble some sort of ranking of vendors, though the work is still in progress. Take the above as provisional and possibly useful

 

[jasper9]

Those comments above seem inline with what I’m seeing sending the same sample to three different vendors.

 

[ceaver]

I've read about concerns with some of the cheaper options. I've considered both Triton and ATI, but have only used ATI to date, twice. I personally would prefer to use Triton because I think the targeted levels in ATI reports are a bit off from what we shoot for in the hobby, so therefore what is listed as too high or too low according to them may not actually be, depending on what you're aiming for. Lastly, based on triton results I've seen people post here, I also prefer how they present the results and the recommended steps to take to address any readings that are out of range. Just my 2 cents

 

[radiata]

I submitted test samples to Triton today. Unfortunately, I thought their use of two water samples meant that they would test my RO/DI water as well as my system's water. Turns out that the second sample is actually just for backup purposes in the event the primary sample goes south. Their documentation states "TESTS ONE AQUARIUM". Business wise, this redundancy is smart, but I sure would like to know, without spending another $50, what my RODI hardware is putting out...

 

[ceaver]

I submitted test samples to Triton today. Unfortunately, I thought their use of two water samples meant that they would test my RO/DI water as well as my system's water. Turns out that the second sample is actually just for backup purposes in the event the primary sample goes south. Their documentation states "TESTS ONE AQUARIUM". Business wise, this redundancy is smart, but I sure would like to know, without spending another $50, what my RODI hardware is putting out...

That reminds me, I should mention that ATI does test your RODI as well.

 

[mdb_talon]

Here are couple ideas and observations to consider.

1) No vendor will guarantee the analysis they provide. By this I mean they do not tell you how accurate their results are nor how consistent the results will be. This means you are flat out trusting them to do the job right. This is by no means an indictment, just pointing out when you receive an analysis that worries you, your first response should be to wonder what if the analysis is off.

2) The analysis results have a chance to be reasonably consistent for the same vendor, day to day, or from vendor to vendor for elements with concentrations greater than 1000 ppb. Good might be +/- 5-20%. Below that concentration, the trace elements, variability can be large +/- 100% would not be uncommon and elements may or may not be detected. Phosphorous among several other elements seem to be a challenge to get right. This also applies to RO water testing. Some vendors will detect elements while others will not.

In the spirit of transparency, the above comments are based on results from an ongoing research project that @taricha, @Rick Mathew and I are conducting to understand the variability in ICP results. We are also trying to assemble some sort of ranking of vendors, though the work is still in progress. Take the above as provisional and possibly useful

Sounds very interesting look forward to hearing more. I have found ICP tests to be useful and i do adjust trace element dosing based off them even though of course they are not perfect. Of course i have no real idea if any are consistently more accurate(or even which are consistent even if not completely accurate) than others that would be great info.

 

[BadSquishy]

I’ve had a good experience with ATI. I was pleasantly surprised with the turnaround time too, especially considering it went all the way to Germany from the US! Took only a few days for them to get my samples in the mail, and then the very next day the had my results. They did my RODI water and my tank water.

 

[mclark452]

Thanks for the reccomendation, I'll check it out.

If you're not a stickler for accuracy, go ahead and waste your money on that kit. ATI would be my recommendation with Triton second. Nothing good happend fast and unless there's an emergency speed shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Jib]

Here are couple ideas and observations to consider.

1) No vendor will guarantee the analysis they provide. By this I mean they do not tell you how accurate their results are nor how consistent the results will be. This means you are flat out trusting them to do the job right. This is by no means an indictment, just pointing out when you receive an analysis that worries you, your first response should be to wonder what if the analysis is off.

2) The analysis results have a chance to be reasonably consistent for the same vendor, day to day, or from vendor to vendor for elements with concentrations greater than 1000 ppb. Good might be +/- 5-20%. Below that concentration, the trace elements, variability can be large +/- 100% would not be uncommon and elements may or may not be detected. Phosphorous among several other elements seem to be a challenge to get right. This also applies to RO water testing. Some vendors will detect elements while others will not.

In the spirit of transparency, the above comments are based on results from an ongoing research project that @taricha, @Rick Mathew and I are conducting to understand the variability in ICP results. We are also trying to assemble some sort of ranking of vendors, though the work is still in progress. Take the above as provisional and possibly useful

Thank you for the thorough consideration points. Its helpful to a novice.

If you're not a stickler for accuracy, go ahead and waste your money on that kit. ATI would be my recommendation with Triton second. Nothing good happend fast and unless there's an emergency speed shouldn't be an issue.

Why do you feel that recommended kit is inaccurate?

 

[David S]

Hello,

I do general water testing, but thought it might be interesting to get a more in depth ICP test done. Seems to be a few companies who do these, so was curious if there are any recommendations or things to consider when selecting a company. I also buy salt and fresh water from the LFS, so was curious in any tests do more than just your tank water. Maybe like tank water, fresh salt water, and your fresh water?

Thanks for the input,

Jib

I've had numerous ICP tests done since 2015.
I've used ICPANALYSIS.COM, ATI and Triton so I will give you an analysis of what to expect from each service:
TRITON - They essentially introduced the ICP service and in my opinion are still the best.
They will test saltwater samples. They test for most trace elements, with the exception of Rubidium and Fluoride (these elements are dosed by some reefers).
They do not test your RODI water. Nor do they test for Nitrate.
Overall, though, I believe their results are the most accurate of the three.
Shipping - it used to be shipped to Germany and it would take 10 - 14 days for results. Recently, they started doing the test @ Uniquecorals and the results can be obtained within 4 to 7 days.
ATI - Overall quality very good.
Unlike Triton, they test for Fluoride. They also test for Nitrate and provide a test for RODI. Like Triton they do not test for Rubidium.
They ship to Europe and the results will take 10 - 14 days.
ICPANALYSIS.COM - IMO quality of their analysis is significantly below ATI and Triton's.
Like ATI, they test RODI.
They are the only company, of the three, that tests for Rubidium.
However, they do not test for Fluoride or Bromine.
Bromine is an important element, which if overdosed can cause serious issues.
Shipping - One of the supposed advantages of this service is the quick turnaround since it is done in the US.
In reality, it takes 8 - 10 days to get results.
Furthermore, whereas Triton and API send an email notification when results are ready, ICPANALYSIS.COM does not. You have to go to their site, periodically, to get results.
Finally, there is the cost:
Triton and API are similarly priced, while ICPANALYSIS.COM is somewhat cheaper.
Not worth it.
Go with ATI or Triton.

 

[Jib]

@David S

Thank you for the awesome write up and explaining the differences between each one. I really appreciate the time you took to write all of that out. Since I buy my water from an LFS, I would really like to have the RODI tested. I think I'm going to go with ATI. Thanks again.

 

[Dan_P]

@David S

Thank you for the awesome write up and explaining the differences between each one. I really appreciate the time you took to write all of that out. Since I buy my water from an LFS, I would really like to have the RODI tested. I think I'm going to go with ATI. Thanks again.

I recently tested ATI and ICP-Analysis RO testing by spiking my RO with tank water. ICP correctly detected the amount I spiked. ATI reported there were no elements detected. Nothing. Even missed the sodium. At least for testing RO water I would proceed with caution.

ICP-Analysis testing results of tank water is different from ATI and Triton. Hard to describe. We are still trying to think of the fairest way to depict this difference. Maybe, ICP-Analysis results are noisier than ATI and Triton?

 

[mclark452]

Thank you for the thorough consideration points. Its helpful to a novice.



Why do you feel that recommended kit is inaccurate?

I have been a hardcore moonshiner since Andre developed the program. We have "tested" and compared almost all the available ICPs. That kit plain and simple sucks. It doesnt test for flouride, which is pretty important (neither does Triton). That alone is a deal breaker for me. I massively overdosed my bromine based off the results of that test several years back. Never again...it may be fast but take the results with a grain of salt. The only good point for that test is it tests for rubidium...but there again, how accurate is the result?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've used Triton and ATI. I've been happy with both of those. I'm planning to try Aquaforest soon.

I personally would recommend one of those over the other one posted above.

Not all ICP operations are identical.