If I want to start over...

[ABopp]

So as some of you may know I purchased an established aquarium that has been running with live rock only on canisters for a couple months now. My nitrates have been and still are through the roof but from the research I've done, it can happen with canisters, especially with the tear down and transition causing the stir up, die off and the fact that I was told NEVER TO CLEAN THE CANISTERS so that I 'keep all the good stuff'...which I have since learned that is the most incorrect thing ever. Oh well, moving forward. :mad: This is a hobby of learning right? ;Bookworm

So here is the thing - I kind of want to start over...build my own sump (yes I'm back to that), drill my aquarium, aquascape, change the sand bed and generally learn from the beginning. I'm in no rush because nothing happens quickly in this hobby if you want nice long term results.

Here is my question - what do I do with all the live rock? I sort of want to clean it and let it dry out completely for storage but can I do that? Just store it once dry until I am ready for the next step or do I have to do special things with it? I would like to start from scratch.

I would do all my tinkering and come back to the dry rock when everything else is built (which is NOT going to be overnight), drilled and assembled and proceed with the set up with new sump...I just don't want to rush so I feel like if I can just take the live rock out KNOWING I am starting over I won't feel like I am in such a rush.

Can I powerwash those bad boys, let dry and reuse when I'm ready or will I just be left with paperweights? ;Nailbiting

Thanks for all your thoughts!

 

[PatW]

The rock should be good. You can clean it. Then use bleach in water to oxidize the organic on it. Then rinse thoroughly to get the bleach out. The you can put it in saltwater with a powerhead and just cure. Or do the cure plus a cycle. Add an ammonia source, I use Dr. Tim’s because it is a defined dose, a bacteria mix if you want and wait till the ammonia is converted to nitrates and then repeat. Your rock will then be pretty good to start in your tank. It will now be live rock for ammonia processing purposes.

I would strongly suggest that you get a method of nutrient export for your new system. A good protein skimmer is a good start on it.

 

[count krunk]

I think tearing it down and building a sump for it is the best course. You can also check out youtube for many live rock cleaning and cycling videos.

adding a protein skimmer also a great idea

 

[DeniseAndy]

You can certainly store the rock. I would do a soak in bleach if you want after a good powerwash. Then leave it out to dry in the sun for a few days. Should be good and dry after that. Store it in a clean dry place. Cure when ready to use again.

Good luck!!!

 

[ABopp]

Thanks, I forgot to mention the mountain of stuff that came over with this 'established' aquarium that was not necessary, broken or not sufficient for a reef set up. I do have a brand new skimmer, heater RODI unit and some other things I didn't mention that will be moving with the new set up.

I would prefer not to have to store the rock already cured as I'm not sure how long this process will take...

 

[ABopp]

You can certainly store the rock. I would do a soak in bleach if you want after a good powerwash. Then leave it out to dry in the sun for a few days. Should be good and dry after that. Store it in a clean dry place. Cure when ready to use again.

Good luck!!!

Oh perfect, this is exactly what I was hoping I could do!

 

[ABopp]

Is there a specific process to cure once I'm ready to start again? Should I drill and/or aquascape the rock before curing or after?

 

[Greybeard]

If you were to buy brand new Pukani rock, or something similar, it would have been removed from the sea rinsed, and allowed to dry. Not any different from what you're talking about... pulling your rock, letting it dry (die), power wash, if you feel the need, and letting it cure. Critters that die on that rock are going to need to be removed... there are several methods. Power washing will only remove the visible bits... there will still be lots of organic material after washing. It's not a bad thing to do, but honestly, it's unnecessary, since you'll still need to cure the rock, regardless of power washing it or not.

BRS had a video on curing rock that is worth the time... but there are several methods. As simple and time consuming as soaking in salt water, with regular water changes, to as complex and outright dangerous as using an acid bath. All of the methods have their place.... If you're not in a hurry, diluted bleach, then diluted hydrogen peroxide, followed by a good long soak in salt water is probably the method I'd choose. It's as effective as acid, without the worry.

There is nothing _wrong_ with sumpless systems... but IMHO, there is no substitute for a drilled tank with a well thought out overflow and a good sump. I haven't set up a tank using any other method for many years, and can't see myself ever doing so. MAKE CERTAIN that the glass you intend to drill is not tempered... but aside from that, it's really not that big of a deal.

Oh, and yes on dumping the canister filter. Just not a viable solution for filtering a reef system. Never clean it? Huh... yeah, that's great advice. What idiot told you that?

 

[Greybeard]

Oh... forgot to share:

 

[ABopp]

If you were to buy brand new Pukani rock, or something similar, it would have been removed from the sea rinsed, and allowed to dry. Not any different from what you're talking about... pulling your rock, letting it dry (die), power wash, if you feel the need, and letting it cure. Critters that die on that rock are going to need to be removed... there are several methods. Power washing will only remove the visible bits... there will still be lots of organic material after washing. It's not a bad thing to do, but honestly, it's unnecessary, since you'll still need to cure the rock, regardless of power washing it or not.

BRS had a video on curing rock that is worth the time... but there are several methods. As simple and time consuming as soaking in salt water, with regular water changes, to as complex and outright dangerous as using an acid bath. All of the methods have their place.... If you're not in a hurry, diluted bleach, then diluted hydrogen peroxide, followed by a good long soak in salt water is probably the method I'd choose. It's as effective as acid, without the worry.

There is nothing _wrong_ with sumpless systems... but IMHO, there is no substitute for a drilled tank with a well thought out overflow and a good sump. I haven't set up a tank using any other method for many years, and can't see myself ever doing so. MAKE CERTAIN that the glass you intend to drill is not tempered... but aside from that, it's really not that big of a deal.

Oh, and yes on dumping the canister filter. Just not a viable solution for filtering a reef system. Never clean it? Huh... yeah, that's great advice. What idiot told you that?

Ha, exactly. Only the 'die hard reefer' that sold it to me. ;Facepalm But it's ok, I've done a tremendous amount of research which has lead my down the path of wanting a sump and that is where I am heading.

Yes I really want to powerwash for visual reasons...there is quite a bit of white tubing and I believe I have encountered the diatom bomb over the last week or two so I just want to clean it well. Certainly not in a rush - can I do this soak after and then leave to let dry or powerwash, let dry and do the soak after storage when ready to use again?

 

[Greybeard]

let dry and do the soak after storage when ready to use again?

That one. Keep in mind that the soak you're talking about takes time... weeks.

 

[ABopp]

That one. Keep in mind that the soak you're talking about takes time... weeks.

Perrrfect! And thanks for the video, that will be so helpful when I'm ready to go again!

 

[cracker]

good luck with the rebuild ! Please show us your plans for this sump before the build !

 

[mcarroll]

Here is my question - what do I do with all the live rock? I sort of want to clean it and let it dry out completely for storage but can I do that? Just store it once dry until I am ready for the next step or do I have to do special things with it? I would like to start from scratch.

Since nobody told you about the canister, I won't let that happen to you twice....

Saving the rock dry is a poor idea. 99.9% of the value in live rock is in the "live" part. (That why that silly name stuck! ) So you're just saving plain rocks if you kill em.

If you're going to have your tank down for an extended period, sell your rock at it's current value to someone before you take down the tank.

Acquire new LIVE rock when you're ready for it.

2¢

 

[ABopp]

Since nobody told you about the canister, I won't let that happen to you twice....

Saving the rock dry is a poor idea. 99.9% of the value in live rock is in the "live" part. (That why that silly name stuck! ) So you're just saving plain rocks if you kill em.

If you're going to have your tank down for an extended period, sell your rock at it's current value to someone before you take down the tank.

Acquire new LIVE rock when you're ready for it.

2¢

Thanks for the new thought!

Just to be clear....if I let the rock dry out, it is useless to me after? There is no way to make it 'live' again? I'm aware that once dry, it is a lengthy process to start again and I'm ok with that but not if my rocks will be useless...please clarify!

 

[Jesterrace]

So as some of you may know I purchased an established aquarium that has been running with live rock only on canisters for a couple months now. My nitrates have been and still are through the roof but from the research I've done, it can happen with canisters, especially with the tear down and transition causing the stir up, die off and the fact that I was told NEVER TO CLEAN THE CANISTERS so that I 'keep all the good stuff'...which I have since learned that is the most incorrect thing ever. Oh well, moving forward. :mad: This is a hobby of learning right? ;Bookworm

This is one of the reasons why I get irritated when people spout out the "you have to start with freshwater and then after a few years of experience you can move into saltwater" I don't care what anyone says Freshwater teaches you both good habits and bad habits when it comes to saltwater. The reason I bring it up is the whole "never clean the canister to keep the good stuff" is a bad habit from freshwater since the filter holds the established bacteria in a freshwater config. So what they told you was true. . . .from a freshwater perspective. In saltwater your Live Rock is virtually your entire filtration and hence removing or cleaning filters and media doesn't affect anything in a saltwater tank.

 

[TheEngineer]

I’m in the process of rebooting my tank. I bought a $10 tub from HD, filled it with water from my tank as I drained it and stuck my skimmer in there. In 6 weeks it should be all cleaned up and still very much alive.

 

[mcarroll]

There is no way to make it 'live' again?

You can make it "live" technically, but will it be worth the added time, effort and money for "seed products" on top of the "wasted" money? (Lost by not selling the rock live.)

Diversity is likely to be less upon restoral – bottled products can't compete and other methods are still filled with uncertainty.

Diversity of microbes equals stability – they are where it comes from. So yes there's a way....but is it perfect and is it worth it? Probably not on both counts.

To put it another way, it sounds like you're trying to do this version of the tank right, with no shortcuts. This is a shortcut.

Unless a major part of your goal is to prove what it takes to successfully activate dead rock, then you should use real live rock. It's tried and true. When the time comes, buy it new if you have to – at least a majority percentage of it vs dead.

Experiments are cool, but if you goal is to set up a stable reef I'd start off with the sure thing.

(BTW are you sure you want to take this tank down to ground zero and start over from scritchity scratch? If you're not 100% sure then we might be able to help you consider other options that don't require nuking your rock.)

 

[ABopp]

You can make it "live" technically, but will it be worth the added time, effort and money for "seed products" on top of the "wasted" money? (Lost by not selling the rock live.)

Diversity is likely to be less upon restoral – bottled products can't compete and other methods are still filled with uncertainty.

Diversity of microbes equals stability – they are where it comes from. So yes there's a way....but is it perfect and is it worth it? Probably not on both counts.

To put it another way, it sounds like you're trying to do this version of the tank right, with no shortcuts. This is a shortcut.

Unless a major part of your goal is to prove what it takes to successfully activate dead rock, then you should use real live rock. It's tried and true. When the time comes, buy it new if you have to – at least a majority percentage of it vs dead.

Experiments are cool, but if you goal is to set up a stable reef I'd start off with the sure thing.

(BTW are you sure you want to take this tank down to ground zero and start over from scritchity scratch? If you're not 100% sure then we might be able to help you consider other options that don't require nuking your rock.)

Short answer? No, you are right...scratch sucks and I have nothing to prove to science so that is not my ideal route...it was just easier to store....as in not my living space with a three y/o and I wouldn't feel like I'm in a rush.

Long answer? I feel like what I purchased was not in was not the state I understood...so trying to make it work the best I can. Most of what I got when I returned home was not working properly or not enough instruction on what to do with it regardless of how many videos I watch and research I do. I get the whole buyer beware thing and I'm moving forward and learning from my mistakes...I'm also feeling more lost and overwhelmed as I gain more knowledge if that makes any sense lol.

There was quite a bit of die off during the move and that helps explains my my nitrates are so high (everything else spot on)....which is when I read into the difference between sumps and canisters...so I would like to proceed with a sump. I have nothing in my aquarium except live rock, a heater and the canisters flowing. No light, no cleaners or snails, and no livestock of any kind. The seller said I didn't need anything else until my parameters were where they should be and I start looking at live stock. Well due to my nitrate, my params have never gotten there, which is why I started looking into the nitrate issues which lead me to researching canisters which lead me to building or purchasing a sump.

This past couple weeks I have been noticing what I believe is diotoms making an appearance which I understand is common in a new cycle but since I am WEEKS away from building a sump, I'm not sure I'm doing more damage with the simple set up I have while I 'try to figure it out' and everything is turning ugly.

This is why I thought just storing the rock would allow me to drill the tank for the sump (instead of an overflow) and allow me to take my time with the set up. Then when I was ready for the rock, I would raise the clean dead rock and restart.

At this point, it just might be a better idea to sell it and buy when I am ready....just hate to part with 70+ pounds of ugly diatom covered rock...always worth a thought though, appreciate the perspective!

 

[DeniseAndy]

Just a thought. If you have a buddy in the hobby, you can always seed the rock in their sump or tank (if you trust them). This will keep some of the rock live and will seed the rest to cut down on the wait time to liven' the rock.

Live rock usually just means it is full of bacteria you need to keep the ammonia and nitrite in check. If you want "live" rock that is actually taken from the ocean with all the goodies on it, that is a different story; or some that has been through a tank for time and has some coralline on it. However, these bring in their own issues, not always bad, not always good.

I keep extra rock in my sump of my 210g all the time. Whenever I set up a new pico, I simply grab some of that rock to use and never have a cycle in my new tanks. This is basically what you would be doing when curing to live in a covered tub with bacteria in bottle. Just takes longer.