In need of sump help please

[r33fertank]

Hi guys, i appologise but this is a long story. I have a few questions about how exactly my sump should be setup. I thank you in advance to those who always help me as a newbi to reefing, you are very kind to help as im sure ur asked these things over and over again. Anyway, i have a 3 chamber, 2ft sump under my 4ft DT. Its only a FOWLR tank currently but i want to put corals in when everything tests well. I have around 35-40 kg of live rock, 1 pyjama cardinal, 2 small clowns, a blue tang and a small cleanup crew, ( 1 hermit, 2 conch snails, 1 abalone, 1 nassarius snail, 1 sand sifter starfish and a couple of turbos. This tank was previously set up before i got it but was in serious need of help. Salinity would not even read on the meter as they were topping it up with just saltwater. Clowns came with the tank and somehow survived. I fixed salinity, slowly replaced the live rock 1 peice at a time with cured live rock from my LFS and cleaned all equipment and replaced the plumbing .It has been set up now for about 2 months with the new live rock. Salinity tests fine now but No3 is testing quite high. About a week ago i had an outbreak of algae on a few bits of live rock but that has almost gone completely now. I keep getting alot of brown build up on my glass and on my rocks etc. I removed a gross looking rock from my sump yesterday too, it looked dirty compared to all my other rocks so i thought it may be the source.(see pic below of suspect rock).
See photos below for sump setup and brown film buildup.

Is this from the sump?
Should i remove the filter pads in my sump?
Should i put the skimmer inside the second chamber?
Do i need a filter sock?
Do i need more flow in the sump?
Why does the brown film algae keep building up so quick on the glass?
Is my tank still cycling?
I am patient but can i speed up the process?
Should i have cheato in there too?
Thanks so much again to anyone who can help.

 

[Ty Hamatake]

One thing this hobby will teach you is patience (whether you want it to or not ). It honestly sounds like you are reacting to things a little too quickly. Most new tanks are going to have some type of algae problems and the best fix is to just wait it out and let the tank stabilize before you take any actions.
1. Unless you are changing them out frequently, I would remove the filter pads and replace them with a filter sock. This could be adding to your nitrate problem.
2. The only requirement that I'm aware of for skimmer placement is having it in a chamber with a steady water level. It looks like yours is in with the overflow drain and as long as there is a baffle keeping the water at a constant level you should be fine.
3. You don't need one, but I like them. They are your main source of mechanical filtration especially if you remove the filter pads.
4. What is your tank volume and what is your return pump rated for? I believe you want somewhere in the neighborhood of 10x tank volume turnover per hour in your sump, but I'm not sure how legitimate that is.
5. Brown algae sounds like diatoms (very common in a new tank, and can also crop up when there is a disturbance in the sand bed. Maybe from moving your rocks around so often?). Diatoms feed off of silicates which get stirred up from the sand so the best defence with these guys is to just wait it out.
6. After two months your tank should be cycled. Posting some parameters would be very useful here. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels mainly.
7. Only bad things happen overnight in this hobby. You have liverock and sand so just continue being patient
8. Macro algae is mainly for nutrient reduction. Whether or not you use it is a personal preference.

I am still pretty new to this myself so hopefully I haven't fed you anyou bad info. I'm confident someone more knowledgeable will be along to clean up any mess I've made good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[r33fertank]

Thanks mate, i appreciate you telling me what you know. Some good info in there. .

 

[Brew12]

I am still pretty new to this myself so hopefully I haven't fed you anyou bad info. I'm confident someone more knowledgeable will be along to clean up any mess I've made good luck! Keep us posted.

The advice is pretty good. I'll just add a few comments.

1. Unless you are changing them out frequently, I would remove the filter pads and replace them with a filter sock. This could be adding to your nitrate problem.
2. The only requirement that I'm aware of for skimmer placement is having it in a chamber with a steady water level. It looks like yours is in with the overflow drain and as long as there is a baffle keeping the water at a constant level you should be fine.
3. You don't need one, but I like them. They are your main source of mechanical filtration especially if you remove the filter pads.
4. What is your tank volume and what is your return pump rated for? I believe you want somewhere in the neighborhood of 10x tank volume turnover per hour in your sump, but I'm not sure how legitimate that is.
5. Brown algae sounds like diatoms (very common in a new tank, and can also crop up when there is a disturbance in the sand bed. Maybe from moving your rocks around so often?). Diatoms feed off of silicates which get stirred up from the sand so the best defence with these guys is to just wait it out.
6. After two months your tank should be cycled. Posting some parameters would be very useful here. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels mainly.
7. Only bad things happen overnight in this hobby. You have liverock and sand so just continue being patient
8. Macro algae is mainly for nutrient reduction. Whether or not you use it is a personal preference.

1. I'm not sure that your filter floss is doing you much good at all the way it is installed. I would remove it.
2. You have an HOB skimmer, so as long as it is pulling water in, it's location doesn't matter.
3. Being able to run with socks is a nice option. I have been lately to catch algae that is dying off but it isn't necessary.
4. I know some people like 10x turnover but I think that is high. Some people will run it as low as 2x-3x. I keep mine around 5x DT volume.

Pretty much agree with the rest!

 

[r33fertank]

Yeh i was thinking the filter pads may be an issue, ill remove them after work this afternoon and see if things improve. I think ill also get a sock. Thanks @Brew12. Appreciate it

 

[Brew12]

Yeh i was thinking the filter pads may be an issue, ill remove them after work this afternoon and see if things improve. I think ill also get a sock. Thanks @Brew12. Appreciate it

Only run the sock if you see things floating around in your water you want to clear out.

 

[r33fertank]

The advice is pretty good. I'll just add a few comments.



1. I'm not sure that your filter floss is doing you much good at all the way it is installed. I would remove it.
2. You have an HOB skimmer, so as long as it is pulling water in, it's location doesn't matter.
3. Being able to run with socks is a nice option. I have been lately to catch algae that is dying off but it isn't necessary.
4. I know some people like 10x turnover but I think that is high. Some people will run it as low as 2x-3x. I keep mine around 5x DT volume.

Pretty much agree with the rest!

I have around 400 litres in the the DT tank and my pump is 2200LPH so its around 5x DT volume.

 

[Brew12]

I have around 400 litres in the the DT tank and my pump is 2200LPH so its around 5x DT volume.

There is your problem, you are running in LPH instead of GPH

Algae coming and going is fairly common in new saltwater tanks, at least for the first 6 months or so. Most people call it the "ugly stage". Just try not to overfeed to limit algae growth. If it gets out of hand you need to adjust your feeding. That will be the main source of your nitrates and phosphates. Everything you are seeing is fairly normal. Your skimmer and water changes should both help lower nitrates over time.

 

[r33fertank]

I havent bought my test kits yet so cant post more water parameters till this afternoon when i get them. Only have No3 as its what the LFS said i would need to tell if the cycle had ended and a salinity tester. Should i have a power head and carbon in the sump too or are those things also a matter of opinion?
Probly guilty of moving my rocks a little to much. [emoji15]

 

[r33fertank]

@Brew12, thanks mate. This forum always gives me all the info i need.

 

[Brew12]

I havent bought my test kits yet so cant post more water parameters till this afternoon when i get them. Only have No3 as its what the LFS said i would need to tell if the cycle had ended and a salinity tester. Should i have a power head and carbon in the sump too or are those things also a matter of opinion?
Probly guilty of moving my rocks a little to much. [emoji15]

I'm going to bite my tongue a bit on this one.... :mad:
Nitrate only lets you know if your cycle has started. For saltwater we worry about ammonia. When you can quickly rid the system of added ammonia we call the cycle complete. Ammonia becomes Nitrite become Nitrate. Sounds like you already have fish, and they aren't dead, so you must not have ammonia. Best if I don't say much more on this...

Almost everything in this hobby is a matter of opinion. You need light, flow, bacteria (live rock), and a heater. Good husbandry can make everything else much less important. Very few people run powerheads in their sumps, but there can be some good reasons to do so. I wouldn't worry about it yet. Carbon can be a great idea if you have coral warfare going on but again, I wouldn't do that yet either. Not until you find a good reason to do so. Many people get in trouble because they do things based on what they see others do. Much better to do things to correct issues that you find then to randomly add stuff just because imo.

 

[r33fertank]

Copy that. I have a feeling the guy i spoke to at that LFS was not an expert in the field by any means. I have since changed to a saltwater only LFS. I do know that ammonia is the enemy. The clowns and pyjama came with the tank so i jist did my best to keep them alive.
Again i appreciate the help. I learn something new everyday in this hobby but think iv learnt an important one today. Cheers

 

[Brew12]

I have a feeling the guy i spoke to at that LFS was not an expert in the field by any means

Very good observation!

The fact you kept those fish alive says you are doing something right despite the advice you received!

Good luck, and keep asking questions!

 

[Arron209]

I wouldn't make too many changes to the system that quickly. You'll learn that in this hobby, patience really does go a long way. I'd suggest getting more test kits and frequently testing to keep track of your parameters. Test kits really do pay for themselves in the long run.