Is a ‘Pest Free Guarantee’ Too Much to Ask for in Corals & Frags?

[Reef Builders]

It’s not a stretch to say that the coral aquarium hobby is a fairly mature past time with more than a few decades of experience and refinement. After more than twenty years of intensive culture we have access to a huge variety of captive grown coral frags in virtually all the developed countries of the…
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[BighohoReef]

@Reef Builders Thank you for this article! I couldn't agree more with what you're saying, captive grown coral should come with a pest free guarantee (Thank you Leonardo's Reef Laboratories!), especially the vendors that sell high-end SPS. If you're buying aquaculture pieces from a private seller or LFS I think you should reserve the right to see the tank, and if a pest shows up on the frag or plug (within reason) refund time. Nothing irritates me more when people get offended or use the line "you are bound to get <insert pest> at some point". No, I won't I QT and dip any and all things going into my main tank (even things still coming out of QT), I buy from people that allow me to see their tanks, I avoid the LFS that has red dots moving about the glass, I clean and cure rock in isolation to check for bugs. I have learned my lesson buying pest ridden maricultured/wild pieces...

I mean would you buy a home or luxury car that's infested with rats and bugs? I think not... I would love to see more LFS, vendors, and farmers take this type of policy. Hopefully, the masses can help change the industry or at least follow QT procedures like Adam @Battlecorals

 

[Joe Rice]

When I buy aquacultured coral frags from any well-known vendor, I just assume that the frags are pest-free as the vendor has such a huge financial incentive to keep pests out of their systems - well, at least pests that damage corals. So far that belief seems to have stood up. Have others found this not to be the case?

Given that, it would seem to be a low risk thing for the vendor to offer such a guarantee.

 

[Variant]

When I buy aquacultured coral frags from any well-known vendor, I just assume that the frags are pest-free as the vendor has such a huge financial incentive to keep pests out of their systems - well, at least pests that damage corals. So far that belief seems to have stood up. Have others found this not to be the case?

Given that, it would seem to be a low risk thing for the vendor to offer such a guarantee.

+1 to this. This is why I primarily look to buy from aquaculture vendors when it comes to Corals because they have a vested interest in ensuring that their system(s) are pest free as it's literally their livelihood at stake. What I avoid now are shops both brick & mortar and online that have a large importing practice. Not to say imports are bad, but shops where a large chunk of their $ comes from selling imported corals (SPS, Softies, and LPS) are more likely to have pests and are more likely to not have the same degree of incentive as someone who is 100% aquaculture.

I see LFS workers dip hands from tank to tank and they don't have an isolated QT tank for imported stuff either as they have to maximize the space they have. Not to mention that you also have "chop shops" for SPS and for all those folks who import Gold Torches in mass that can also harbor pests....

 

[Battlecorals]

@Reef Builders Thank you for this article! I couldn't agree more with what you're saying, captive grown coral should come with a pest free guarantee (Thank you Leonardo's Reef Laboratories!), especially the vendors that sell high-end SPS. If you're buying aquaculture pieces from a private seller or LFS I think you should reserve the right to see the tank, and if a pest shows up on the frag or plug (within reason) refund time. Nothing irritates me more when people get offended or use the line "you are bound to get <insert pest> at some point". No, I won't I QT and dip any and all things going into my main tank (even things still coming out of QT), I buy from people that allow me to see their tanks, I avoid the LFS that has red dots moving about the glass, I clean and cure rock in isolation to check for bugs. I have learned my lesson buying pest ridden maricultured/wild pieces...

I mean would you buy a home or luxury car that's infested with rats and bugs? I think not... I would love to see more LFS, vendors, and farmers take this type of policy. Hopefully, the masses can help change the industry or at least follow QT procedures like Adam @Battlecorals

I appreciate the mention! I do and have worked really hard on this for many years now nearly to the point of obsession.
While I certainly won't ever make the claim that my plugs are critter-free, (pods, small stars, and even some harmless types of scavenger flatworms) I am very confident my systems are free of any know predatory coral pests.

 

[ruegaroo]

I'm still pretty new to the hobby but I've always found it odd that it is so widely accepted among hobbyists that pests are just going to happen so we should have a separate system dedicated to quarantining and pest control. Why do we just accept it?

 

[BighohoReef]

I appreciate the mention! I do and have worked really hard on this for many years now nearly to the point of obsession.
While I certainly won't ever make the claim that my plugs are critter-free, (pods, small stars, and even some harmless types of scavenger flatworms) I am very confident my systems are free of any know predatory coral pests.

Just my personal opinion but I feel like every vendor, LFS should at least take to the BC practice of QT’ing... I get that you have to move stock but healthy, (unwanted) pest free corals keep folks coming back. Kills me when I see a post from some new person unknowingly getting something that could have been prevented.

Long and short as a private collector and seller I’ve modeled my QT practice after BC. Even down to letting questionable pieces go before they get to QT definitely not an easy thing to do.

 

[Variant]

@Reef Builders you guys should consider going (physically or digitally due to COVID) to various coral vendors to understand their QT procedures and issue "certifications" or a "reef builder's stamp of approval". Kind of like how products like cereals have "fair trade" "heart check", etc.

You'll probably only be invited by vendors who know they have robust QT practices while all the shady vendors will either (1) lie to your face about what they do or (2) not invite you over. This can be helpful for hobbyists who are looking for "signals" that demonstrate how much they can trust any vendor.

 

[flampton]

Interesting topic but actually way complicated in action. E.g. Adam @Battlecorals stuff is pest free in my eyes, but would another customer flip on getting an Asterina? Would they want a refund because some Asterinas hypothetically eat coral?? What a nightmare if someone orders a 800 dollar Battlebox.

My tank is clean in my eyes, but others would say my bristleworms, occasional vermetid, amphipods, etc.. could all hypothetically harm coral and as such are pests.

So I think a guarantee of no AEFW is on entirely different level then Aiptasia, and then asterinas, then bristleworms etc....

And how would go about placing the microscopic Vibrios? And other microbial pathogens??

Oh and I went to the website and saw NO pest free guarantee, they just say their stuff is pest free without indicating how you might seek a refund on their product.

Alive Guarantee – Leonardo's Reef Laboratories

At Leonardo's Reef you can buy with full confidence. We make sure you are completely satisfied with your purchase.

leonardosreef.com

So still just need to buy from shops you trust and still dip. Even Adam tells you to dip his stuff

 

[flampton]

@Reef Builders you guys should consider going (physically or digitally due to COVID) to various coral vendors to understand their QT procedures and issue "certifications" or a "reef builder's stamp of approval". Kind of like how products like cereals have "fair trade" "heart check", etc.

You'll probably only be invited by vendors who know they have robust QT practices while all the shady vendors will either (1) lie to your face about what they do or (2) not invite you over. This can be helpful for hobbyists who are looking for "signals" that demonstrate how much they can trust any vendor.

These types of 'policing' organizations usually start with high ideals but almost always eventually dissolve into money grubbing, corruption and/or protection rackets. That's why most are meaningless. The AHA heart check is where you pay an exorbitant amount of money to the AHA for a symbol on your box. Just needs to meet a low fat criteria. Thus you get Trix, Lucky Charms, Cocoa Puffs, etc. as laughable 'heart healthy foods'.

But what you won't see is small companies with this logo because it really has nothing to do with heart health. It's a 'donation' racket...

Wish people weren't people sometimes, lol!!!

 

[Battlecorals]

Interesting topic but actually way complicated in action. E.g. Adam @Battlecorals stuff is pest free in my eyes, but would another customer flip on getting an Asterina? Would they want a refund because some Asterinas hypothetically eat coral?? What a nightmare if someone orders a 800 dollar Battlebox.

My tank is clean in my eyes, but others would say my bristleworms, occasional vermetid, amphipods, etc.. could all hypothetically harm coral and as such are pests.

So I think a guarantee of no AEFW is on entirely different level then Aiptasia, and then asterinas, then bristleworms etc....

And how would go about placing the microscopic Vibrios? And other microbial pathogens??

Oh and I went to the website and saw NO pest free guarantee, they just say their stuff is pest free without indicating how you might seek a refund on their product.

Alive Guarantee – Leonardo's Reef Laboratories

At Leonardo's Reef you can buy with full confidence. We make sure you are completely satisfied with your purchase.

leonardosreef.com

So still just need to buy from shops you trust and still dip. Even Adam tells you to dip his stuff

"And how would go about placing the microscopic Vibrios? And other microbial pathogens??"


As far as microbial pathogens are concerned, we have this resource now. Which is pretty cool.

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System A discussion with Adam Derickson of BattleCorals Eli Meyer, AquaBiomics EM: Ever since I started trying to grow corals, I’ve been awed by some reef-keepers’ abilities to...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[CMO]

Depends on the types of corals you're dealing in and what you consider a pest IMO. I was trying to accomplish this with a past venture and think it's totally doable with SPS only systems. However, once you start dealing in corals with exposed skeletons, rock etc. it gets a whole lot trickier. Vermetids for example I think may be impossible to control when you're dealing with a lot of incoming Euphyllia or similar. Only after putting corals under a scope did I find the problem. Tons and tons of microscopic vermetids that you can't even remotely see with the naked eye, nor can be controlled with dips etc.

I think it can be accomplished with a 100% captive grown situation where new introductions are rare and totally QT'd, dipped, inspected with scope, exposed skeleton sanded with dremel brush etc. Again, not talking about SPS here - I found complete SPS pest prevention to be much much easier. And then there's things like Bryopsis which I'd put at the top of the list of most hated pests in my book (and again, I can't imagine anyone could guarantee 100% bryopisis free unless it's fresh cut SPS, zoas or the like).

 

[Crashnt24]

So because it's 2020 we are all scared of everything? Is fear of the natural world the new norm?

Dip your corals! Can we honestly demand frags sterile of anything besides their tissue? This is going against nature and nature is what we signed up for in reefing. Stop being scared of everything. Simply dip your corals... what's hard about that? Your demanding a frag facility that charges 200$ for a half inch frag to have a sterile tank? They won't grow!

I don't understand this hobby sometimes...

 

[GlassMunky]

Edit

 

[GlassMunky]

"And how would go about placing the microscopic Vibrios? And other microbial pathogens??"


As far as microbial pathogens are concerned, we have this resource now. Which is pretty cool.

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System A discussion with Adam Derickson of BattleCorals Eli Meyer, AquaBiomics EM: Ever since I started trying to grow corals, I’ve been awed by some reef-keepers’ abilities to...

www.reef2reef.com

"And how would go about placing the microscopic Vibrios? And other microbial pathogens??"


As far as microbial pathogens are concerned, we have this resource now. Which is pretty cool.

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System

The Microbial Community in a Professional Coral Aquaculture System A discussion with Adam Derickson of BattleCorals Eli Meyer, AquaBiomics EM: Ever since I started trying to grow corals, I’ve been awed by some reef-keepers’ abilities to...

www.reef2reef.com

Aqua bionics is useless
I’ve had it for over 6 months and it’s nothing but a waste of money and I SERIOUSLY doubt it’s accuracy based on the test results

 

[Joe Rice]

So because it's 2020 we are all scared of everything? Is fear of the natural world the new norm?

I'll admit it: I am scared of getting AEFW in my tank. And I'm scared of getting montipora-eating nudibranchs as well. I believe I was just as scared of these pests in 2019 as I am now but perhaps you're right that it's just the times.

 

[CenlaReefer]

Depends on the types of corals you're dealing in and what you consider a pest IMO. I was trying to accomplish this with a past venture and think it's totally doable with SPS only systems. However, once you start dealing in corals with exposed skeletons, rock etc. it gets a whole lot trickier. Vermetids for example I think may be impossible to control when you're dealing with a lot of incoming Euphyllia or similar. Only after putting corals under a scope did I find the problem. Tons and tons of microscopic vermetids that you can't even remotely see with the naked eye, nor can be controlled with dips etc.

I think it can be accomplished with a 100% captive grown situation where new introductions are rare and totally QT'd, dipped, inspected with scope, exposed skeleton sanded with dremel brush etc. Again, not talking about SPS here - I found complete SPS pest prevention to be much much easier. And then there's things like Bryopsis which I'd put at the top of the list of most hated pests in my book (and again, I can't imagine anyone could guarantee 100% bryopisis free unless it's fresh cut SPS, zoas or the like).

Exposed skeletons can be encased in super glue. After that, I sprinkle dry sand over the glue. Exposed rock, frag disks, or coral skeletons are your enemy. This is primarily where the pests live. Zoas have to be scraped of the rock or disks in polyp clusters and then remounted... it is almost impossible to import a large colony of zoas /palys without great risk unless your source has already done this sort of care at the onset.

Can one do a Reef Flux dip the prevent problem algae from being introduced?

 

[Rubberfrog]

The coral tanks at my LFS are infested with aptasia. Not a file fish insight. When I mention it, they just shrug and act like I'm paranoid for no reason.

 

[CenlaReefer]

So because it's 2020 we are all scared of everything? Is fear of the natural world the new norm?

Dip your corals! Can we honestly demand frags sterile of anything besides their tissue? This is going against nature and nature is what we signed up for in reefing. Stop being scared of everything. Simply dip your corals... what's hard about that? Your demanding a frag facility that charges 200$ for a half inch frag to have a sterile tank? They won't grow!

I don't understand this hobby sometimes...

I am all about dip! I will do the Bayer Pesticide dips even if a vendor says they have a pest-free guarantee. Dips will not take care of aiptasia in the least. The measures I mentioned above can get rid of a lot of stuff like that. People growing corals for a living can use QT tanks for a couple of months before importing stuff in the main grow tanks. What is so hard about that?

 

[CMO]

Exposed skeletons can be encased in super glue. After that, I sprinkle dry sand over the glue. Exposed rock, frag disks, or coral skeletons are your enemy. This is primarily where the pests live. Zoas have to be scraped of the rock or disks in polyp clusters and then remounted... it is almost impossible to import a large colony of zoas /palys without great risk unless your source has already done this sort of care at the onset.

Can one do a Reef Flux dip the prevent problem algae from being introduced?

Yup. I did this as well. Covering in expoxy works too. But then again, this topic was about commercial scale and I'm not sure all this is realistic unless you're a captive grown shop and up for a ton of work. Doing this for the amount of corals that flow through most sellers isn't possible.