Is DIY tap water filter sufficient because i dont have R/O

[Perry]

Sorry, getting a TDS meter tells you nothing about the quality of your tap water.

My incoming water is ~ 250 ppm. This is awesome if 100% of the dissolved solids are calcium carbonate. But, it's not. It it's a myriad of terribly poisonous elements including chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, and even some nifty radioactive isotopes.

Anther poster mentioned their incoming TDS was ~ 30 ppm. This must be better right? Not really. What if 100% of the 30 ppm dissolved solids are phosphorus? Or copper?. The point is, as far as anyone can tell, the OP has no idea exactly what is in his tap.

WWC in Orlando does not use an "RODI" system (although it is filtered with large RO membrane etc). The difference is that these guys are pros, and they know, down to the element, what is in their tap.

The water in our reefs will never be better than the water we start with. If you don't know what's in it, your taking an enormous gamble with your pets - who are relying on you to keep them alive. For some, taking uncalculated risks is acceptable. For me (and presumably the majority of the reefing community) it is not. For the OP it is, and that's their prerogative. The problem is that many very impactful assumptions are being made, and no data has been presented at all - just twisting of posts and articles, with no logic or correlation, and being touted as sound philosophy. Other than the logic of removing all unknown contaminants, and adding back in exactly what science says we need, the discussion so far is poppycock.

If the OP truly wants help (i admit, i was tricked into thinking they wanted help/healthy discussion) let's start with the OPs tap water analysis from their supplier. Perhaps a 6 stage RODI system is not needed for their setup, but until anyone knows (most notably the OP) - their argument for "not needing a filter" is rubbish.

And BTW don't knock Bpb until you try. His tank represents the apex of reefing community, and it would be an understatement to say that most aspire to emulate his success.

Boom!
Spot on Nate!!!

 

[Key-tie]

Sorry, getting a TDS meter tells you nothing about the quality of your tap water.

My incoming water is ~ 250 ppm. This is awesome if 100% of the dissolved solids are calcium carbonate. But, it's not. It it's a myriad of terribly poisonous elements including chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, and even some nifty radioactive isotopes.

Anther poster mentioned their incoming TDS was ~ 30 ppm. This must be better right? Not really. What if 100% of the 30 ppm dissolved solids are phosphorus? Or copper?. The point is, as far as anyone can tell, the OP has no idea exactly what is in his tap.

WWC in Orlando does not use an "RODI" system (although it is filtered with large RO membrane etc). The difference is that these guys are pros, and they know, down to the element, what is in their tap.

The water in our reefs will never be better than the water we start with. If you don't know what's in it, your taking an enormous gamble with your pets - who are relying on you to keep them alive. For some, taking uncalculated risks is acceptable. For me (and presumably the majority of the reefing community) it is not. For the OP it is, and that's their prerogative. The problem is that many very impactful assumptions are being made, and no data has been presented at all - just twisting of posts and articles, with no logic or correlation, and being touted as sound philosophy. Other than the logic of removing all unknown contaminants, and adding back in exactly what science says we need, the discussion so far is poppycock.

If the OP truly wants help (i admit, i was tricked into thinking they wanted help/healthy discussion) let's start with the OPs tap water analysis from their supplier. Perhaps a 6 stage RODI system is not needed for their setup, but until anyone knows (most notably the OP) - their argument for "not needing a filter" is rubbish.

And BTW don't knock Bpb until you try. His tank represents the apex of reefing community, and it would be an understatement to say that most aspire to emulate his success.

My carbon filters on my tap water tank take care of the chlorine...chlorimine...ammonia...and many other nastys.
I wont list them all because with google its very easy to find.
I also employ a uv sterilizer...
I also have bone char carbon for fluoride, as well as activated carbon with ammonia remover.
There's a lot of talk about copper and phosphorus...and both are naturally occuring micronutrients that are essential for marine health and growth.
Its all about the levels you have/use.
Copper is all throughout the marine system, and used by many different organisms.
It comes down to your concentrations.
A simple heavy metal absorbing resin in the carbon filter makes short work of copper if its too high in your water.

 

[Key-tie]

Over time a biofilm will coat copper, lead and galvanized piping all of which is harmful (Flint MI)
I personally don't trust LFS, I used to get my water from a LFS in 2000, he has a DI cylinder with no tds monitor
and it isn't that big( 2 gal. media) yet he just sells 100's of gallons threw it.......He still does that today and he knows better.
my tanks in the 90's was all tap water that sat for 48 hours before use and I had zero algae and rarely had to scrape glass, shoot I never had coraline. Fish only, Aragonite and sandstone decora rock from freshwater days.

When I restarted 3 years ago I ran strait filter,carbon block and DI and could get 150-200 gallons before changing out the resin. Lots of ways to skin a cat and some are better than others.

Exactly !
There are many paths that can lead to the same place.
Expanding thought and possibility is what makes all of this fun and interesting.

 

[Key-tie]

RO filters also employ a prefilter...a carbon chamber...a resin chamber for metals...the same as a high end carbon filter.
The main difference is the membrane that filters down to a much smaller particle size then the carbon alone.
If you used an RO membrane without the other chambers of filtration, your membrane would be ineffective in a very short period of time.
As was said before...many ways to skin a cat.

 

[Dom]

I find this to be an interesting idea... making your own filtration system.

That being said, I think the answer is in the results. So I'd ask that you post pictures and let us see how things progress in your tank over time.

 

[Dom]

If you aren't willing to get a ro/di unit, don't get into the hobby and waste your $$. End of story.

Respectfully disagree. There are alternatives available to us on a retail level.

 

[Key-tie]

I find this to be an interesting idea... making your own filtration system.

That being said, I think the answer is in the results. So I'd ask that you post pictures and let us see how things progress in your tank over time.

Agreed...
And i will absolutely post updates of how it all works...good or bad.
This site is about discussion and exchange of ideas, not competition...
At least for me it is.

 

[naterealbig]

My carbon filters on my tap water tank take care of the chlorine...chlorimine...ammonia...and many other nastys.
I wont list them all because with google its very easy to find.
I also employ a uv sterilizer...
I also have bone char carbon for fluoride, as well as activated carbon with ammonia remover.
There's a lot of talk about copper and phosphorus...and both are naturally occuring micronutrients that are essential for marine health and growth.
Its all about the levels you have/use.
Copper is all throughout the marine system, and used by many different organisms.
It comes down to your concentrations.
A simple heavy metal absorbing resin in the carbon filter makes short work of copper if its too high in your water.

Interesting. I didn't realize carbon removed ammonia.

What is your final copper level in your diy filtered water?. A good salt mix will also provide copper - in the correct amount.

What are you using the UV sterilizer for?

 

[Key-tie]

Ok sounds like you'v


Interesting. I didn't realize carbon removed ammonia.

What is your final copper level in your diy filtered water?. A good salt mix will also provide copper - in the correct amount.

What are you using the UV sterilizer for?

Uv sterilizer removes most bacteria so i dont introduce any unwanted beings into my tank on the microscopic level, and so the bacteria already in my saltwater system dominates for the needs of my tank.
And you've never seen carbon/ammonia remover blend ???

 

[Key-tie]

I also tend to do my tanks from a specific region, which i believe helps my tanks tremendously.
If i choose "great barrier reef"...i use the resource that knows everything, Google, and i research the corals and organisms and water parameters from that specific area, and thry to recreat that.
Nature has already told me what thrives in that condition, i just have to copy it, and all corals in my tank should thrive together.
I dont do specific corals from all different regions of the world in the same tank just because i like the coral, because i find it to troublesome to keep balanced.
Nature does know some stuff if we listen to it a little.

 

[naterealbig]

Uv sterilizer removes most bacteria so i dont introduce any unwanted beings into my tank on the microscopic level, and so the bacteria already in my saltwater system dominates for the needs of my tank.
And you've never seen carbon/ammonia remover blend ???

Sorry. Sounds like you've got everything under control. Good luck.

 

[lapin]

Interesting thread.

Just for fun ( because inquiring minds want to know, (me), why not run your filters. Send the water out for a test and lets see if this works for your water supply.

I know people that use well water with 900 +TDS and others using tap water without a RODI filter, and are sucessfull.

 

[Bpb]

Sorry. Sounds like you've got everything under control. Good luck.

We were all duped by an OP who presented the thread as a simple question: is water passed through activated carbon in a power filter close to what you get from an RO membrane?
That was the original question.
The OP had no actual interest in whether that was right, and had simply used the question as an introduction to soap box the pitfalls of modern reefing. There’s a ton I hate about modern reefing. Maintaining excellent water parameters is not one of those things. The OP claims to mimic an element profile from the GBR. Without an icp analysis of his own tank water, that is a hollow statement. Even saying you mimic the gbr as your tank goal is too inclusive. Which region of the gbr? Because many of the same species of fish and coral that are present in the GBR are found in other reefs of the world. Are you sourcing your livestock as genuine Aussie imports? Have you verified your testable major and minor element profile are within test tolerances of what you would find in the Great Barrier Reef?

 

[Key-tie]

The one im starting now I want to be a Hawaiian tank.
According to google, that means lots of vertical rockface and Pocillopora, Pavona, and Monti as the corals in that region i can choose from.
With petco having all large tanks at 50% off right now, and having found a wonderful LFS that specializes in saltwater only and has 2 aisles of corals and frags right in my new area, it should be a lot of fun.

 

[Key-tie]

Interesting thread.

Just for fun ( because inquiring minds want to know, (me), why not run your filters. Send the water out for a test and lets see if this works for your water supply.

I know people that use well water with 900 +TDS and others using tap water without a RODI filter, and are sucessfull.

I agree...
I should send it for an official lab breakdown to truly know down to the final detail.
The biggest offenders i know about but down to the final details of every substance present...i do not.

 

[SDK]

EWG's Tap Water Database: What's in Your Drinking Water?

Look up your local water system to find out which pollutants might be of concern, and find suggestions on the best kinds of home filters to remove those chemicals.

www.ewg.org

 

[lapin]

ICP test results, 90 gallon Mixed Reef w/ Tapwater

Just wanted to show the ATI ICP test results for a mixed reef system maintained with tap water. Often what I've seen when aquarists post problems blame is quickly attributed to water quality issues that aren't supported by the research I've read and experiences I've had over the last couple of de...

www.austinreefclub.com

 

[Key-tie]

We were all duped by an OP who presented the thread as a simple question: is water passed through activated carbon in a power filter close to what you get from an RO membrane?
That was the original question.
The OP had no actual interest in whether that was right, and had simply used the question as an introduction to soap box the pitfalls of modern reefing. There’s a ton I hate about modern reefing. Maintaining excellent water parameters is not one of those things. The OP claims to mimic an element profile from the GBR. Without an icp analysis of his own tank water, that is a hollow statement. Even saying you mimic the gbr as your tank goal is too inclusive. Which region of the gbr? Because many of the same species of fish and coral that are present in the GBR are found in other reefs of the world. Are you sourcing your livestock as genuine Aussie imports? Have you verified your testable major and minor element profile are within test tolerances of what you would find in the Great Barrier Reef?

As i have said before...
I think going to the level you mention and trying to control every single and parameter is overkill.
If you enjoy that level of control, go for it.
I dont want to control the details of nature and life, i want to copy it to the best of what i can do.
That is my enjoyment.
I have nothing against modern reefing...or modern tech...what i do is keep it effective, and as simple as is necessary for proper function.
Plenty of tanks are balanced with regards to organisms and plants doing the work with minimal tech.
I personally believe we try to control too much...and the discussion went that way because i was instantly pummeled with people trying to put me down.
I asked if it was sufficient or close to equal in my original question...being as you want to stick to details.
A successful reef tank is possible without controlling every element and wavelength of light.

 

[Key-tie]

ICP test results, 90 gallon Mixed Reef w/ Tapwater

Just wanted to show the ATI ICP test results for a mixed reef system maintained with tap water. Often what I've seen when aquarists post problems blame is quickly attributed to water quality issues that aren't supported by the research I've read and experiences I've had over the last couple of de...

www.austinreefclub.com

Great post !

 

[Bpb]

ICP test results, 90 gallon Mixed Reef w/ Tapwater

Just wanted to show the ATI ICP test results for a mixed reef system maintained with tap water. Often what I've seen when aquarists post problems blame is quickly attributed to water quality issues that aren't supported by the research I've read and experiences I've had over the last couple of de...

www.austinreefclub.com

Austin TX actually has decent tap water as far as tap goes. That phosphate is sky high though. That alone would be reason to use an RODI filter for my own tank goals