is quarantining necessary?

[cryptodendrum]

Before Paul started using bleach in his tanks, everything died of ich.

“All newcomers to this hobby should quarantine everything, even rocks. If I started a new tank tomorrow with new water and gravel, I would definitely have to quarantine. It takes time, sometimes years, for a tank to become mature and fully cycled.” - Paul B. (ReefKeeping Magazine)

Reefkeeping Magazine - Paul Baldassano’s Reef - 40 Years in the Making

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

​

​

See quote from you above.


Your cardinals did.


How do you add new fish then and keep them alive? Via the quarantine method you advocated above for all new reefers? When you do buy a new fish, isn’t this now your fish and you are responsible for its wellbeing? If it dies of disease, then your fish died of disease.


Can you define “old healthy tank”? Also, Lasse and Les both use 24/7 h202 dosing (a known parasite control).


outside of your fire clown that is 27yrs old+ (it’s ages varies a little by forum) how old are the rest of your fish?

Paul - how many times have you had a total death of all your fish or close to it? As you can see from some of the quotes above, you’ve advocated quarantine for new tanks this century. You’ve advocated the use of bleach much more recently than 35 years ago. (Within the last 10 yrs). You even said that if it weren’t for bleach, you would have quit the hobby.

The fact is that you have advocated quarantine, you have engaged in aggressive parasite control, and you have suffered near total losses of your fish on multiple occasions in the last 25yrs. Without a lab autopsy and analysis the your wipes could be zinc or disease. It’s speculation to say a definitive answer. (I know what you believe: zinc x3 and a fish died killing all the rest).

I’m not denying you have a successful tank and healthy fish and your method works for you. I’ve been fascinated with your method and read many of your posts on the various forums over the last 15yrs). I myself have never medicated any fish in my DT in 23 years. I just recently purchased pre quarantined (medicated) fish and they arrived as the roughest fish I’ve ever purchased and half died. If I’d seen them at my LFS I would not have bought them. I won’t do that again.

But I bring up your past, and recent comments because many new reefers try to emulate your method and it’s important for them to have the whole picture. They read your current posts and assume your last fish issue was 1970, not 2008. They don’t have the mature system you do nor the skill to identify a healthy fish to purchase etc.

@zalick: Thanks for pulling some of that up; it saved me from spending the time digging into that.

In what almost seems like an analogy, I recall that the great astronomer Percival Lowell was quite accomplished, a fact borne by the reality that many things bare his name in tribute to his successes, but one of his greatest blunders (which no-one likes to talk about) is that he actually got the whole idea of "Canals on Mars" completely wrong. Not only that, he became so personally invested in his error, he found he could never walk back his mistaken judgement and analysis, even in the face of damning evidence to the contrary.

And sadly, because we are humans, this happens quite often actually. Which is why I trust Science more than individual scientists and experts; it's not science that fails us, but the humans executing it.

 

[MnFish1]

The 2 posts below - which are directly contradictory (as far as I can tell - explain why @Paul B's method seems to work. It seems to be partly because there seems to be no consistency. The first quote below is the first time I've heard 'you cant buy fish and just through them into the tank' (paraphrased). I just don't get it.

But also what people don't get is that you can't just buy fish and throw them into your tank. They will probably die which is why so many people have a problem and say my system doesn't work.

What exactly is your 'protocol' for introducing new fish that you bought? I would assume thats part of your method?

I add infected fish all the time. If you read any of my posts over the last 25 or so years I have posted all of them. The latest was last week. So I think we should put ich infected fish in all tanks for a test and see which tanks crash.

Yes - both of the cardinals died (I believe that was the one from last week. IMO, and I'm sure many people would agree - is that it seems unethical. As @Lasse would say my guess is its a 'crime' in Sweden (IDK). Who on earth would suggest putting a fish with a presumable curable disease into a tank 'as a test'. That test has already been done - thats why people Quarantine. Just like your cardinals CI in aquaria can have a high mortality.

 

[MnFish1]

I've been lucky to not get velvet doing my 12 days TTM. I've had chromis with uronema die in qurantine but never got into the display.

I guess my question related more to what you 'would' do if you got a disease in your system. BTW - again what you're implying is that most of the time fish that you buy do not have any disease in the first place - if you've only had one chromic die of uronema.

 

[Paul B]

LOL Zalic, I see you have been reading my posts and maybe my book. I did use Clorox (in my book) in the 70s and a few times much later but not directly in my tank. I used to collect sea water from the East River just as it passed Manhattan near here.



The water was and is filthy and I doubt a parasite would live in it but I couldn't get ASW then so I used that. My bible was "The Salt Water Aquarium in the Home" by Robert Straughn and he advised it. The very first squid eggs were hatched out in that Clorox treated water.

And as I also said in my book I used it once in 1971 a few months after I started my tank to eliminate bristle worms and ich. I removed the fish of course. That was 50 years ago, way before I learned how to keep healthy fish but if I somehow came across a tank full of scurvy water where everything died of ich or Bubonic Plague, Iwould probably use Clorox again. It's not a secret.

“All newcomers to this hobby should quarantine everything, even rocks. If I started a new tank tomorrow with new water and gravel, I would definitely have to quarantine. It takes time, sometimes years, for a tank to become mature and fully cycled.” - Paul B. (ReefKeeping Magazine)

That is also a quote from my book and it deals with starting a new tank with new rock and water as I posted in my post above.

outside of your fire clown that is 27yrs old+ (it’s ages varies a little by forum) how old are the rest of your fish?

Yes it does vary because I don't keep logs any more and I forgot when I got that fish but I remember getting her at a LFS that went out of business about 30 years ago so thats how I come to her age. I also have old film pictures of her so I know it was before digital camera's.

Here she is on the very left of the picture which was taken on film. But I don't know when. Maybe the fish is 40. I don't remember.

Your cardinals did.

Yes, they died (I think, I haven't seen them yet but I am still looking) but they were not really my fish yet. I just threw them in my tank and didn't see them for more than 10 seconds. Inever said sick fish will magically get cured when I put them in my tank. But I welcome the new parasites.

The part about me starting the tank in 1971 when no one else had a salt water tank, what is wrong with that? Do you know anyone with a tank from before that? I know in Germany the hobby started earlier because I speak on the history of the hobby which you can Google. I would have a hard time doing that. But I'm old.

Paul - how many times have you had a total death of all your fish or close to it? As you can see from some of the quotes above, you’ve advocated quarantine for new tanks this century. You’ve advocated the use of bleach much more recently than 35 years ago. (Within the last 10 yrs). You even said that if it weren’t for bleach, you would have quit the hobby.

I have never had a total or even partial crash of my tank from disease but oddly enough I did have one from Clorox.
(I think that is also in my book so it would be much easier if you just copied the entire book because none of this is a secret)

I mention many times that only "Regular" Clorox must be used. I once collected water in New York and treated it using "New Fresh Scent Clorox" Then eliminated the chlorine like I advocate. As soon as I put in that water my fish started to jump out. I lost many of them including this Aprox. 10 year old male mandarin (in my book) and an 18 year old cusk eel. That clownfish where we are debating her age went through that and lived. I didn't lose all the fish and I don't think I lost any corals. But never to disease except in 1971 or 72 I may have lost a lot of fish. I don't remember.



So I told you about the bleach and the quarantine of new tanks with new rock and water. Again, nothing new asI wrote all about it and if "Smirkish" reads my book, she can report if I actually said that.

How do you add new fish then and keep them alive? Via the quarantine method you advocated above for all new reefers?

I normally don't buy fish sick enough that they die in a few hours and right in my book it says, "This book is not for Noobs". Noobs have a whole different set of problems to deal with and the majority of my posts are not for them.
I say it all the time.
The vast majority of my fish go on to live out their life to either jump out or die of old age.

This was one of my Watchman gobies dying of old age af about 10. I posted pictures of her as a baby fish, adolescent, with her eggs and dying here.



Most of the time I buy a fish and check it out to see if it looks somewhat healthy although a spot or two wouldn't not let me buy it. Those cardinals I got last week I didn't even look at as I should have. I posted a picture of one of them last week but I can't find it now. It was a banded cardinal and I don't see them often. It is also not the type of fish I was looking for because cardinals are a very common and cheap fish. I walked away and was talking to a customer and told the guy I will take them. I looked at them when I got home and saw that they were pretty sick and didn't think they would live long. I don't have any hospital tank or medications so I put them in.

In that same store a couple of weeks before I asked the guy (who has been in business for 50 years) to catch me a pair of Ruby Red dragonettes. I got home to fine I have two females. As you can see, I don't put to much time into buying fish especially if they are not the fish I want. The ruby reds are doing fine and now I will look for two males.

By the way, those cardinals may still be alive. My tank is all caves and hiding places. That 18 year old cusk eel I lost I only saw avery few times and only at night accidentally with a flashlight.

Can you define “old healthy tank”? Also, Lasse and Les both use 24/7 h202 dosing (a known parasite control).

Yes, to me a healthy tank is an eco system where the fish more or less take care of themselves with no extraneous help from me in the form of medications or quarantine. They all either spawn or at least fill with eggs, never get sick and die of old age and never a communicable disease. I can't speak about Lasse, Atoll,SubSea or Les on how they maintain their tanks. You have to ask them as I have never seen their tanks except on here. I think they also use an oxidator but I think that makes oxygen and I also think, but I am not sure the peroxide is for water conditions just like I used o use ozone for. But if you believe using h202 will give you a healthy, disease free tank, do that.

You even said that if it weren’t for bleach, you would have quit the hobby.

Thats right because of what I said. I used what water I could get (50 years ago) and it was scurvy containing way to much organic matter to keep anything alive so I used it and the rest is history. I have not used bleach in longer than I can remember but I am sure you found somewhere in my book where I used it for something. Actually just yesterday I soaked one of my powerheads in it.

you have engaged in aggressive parasite control, and you have suffered near total losses of your fish on multiple occasions in the last 25yrs.

When did I use any parasite control or lose fish to anything except that bleach accident in the last 25 or even 45 years? I don't remember that but I may have to re read my book.

But I bring up your past, and recent comments because many new reefers try to emulate your method and it’s important for them to have the whole picture.

Smirkish is going to read my book so if she likes, she will know my method. My many quotes are often mis quoted on these forums and most people get the wrong idea about how I feel about quarantine. Contrary to popular belief I am not opposed to quarantine as most people quote me as saying. You yourself found it in my book where I advocate some quarantine and I think it has a place in the hobby.

I am against "long" quarantining like 70 days or so and the use of cautionary medication for a long time.
As you said, in my book I advocate only 10 dys quarantine in copper for a completely new tank with "dry rock".

I am against putting fish, either quarantined or not into a tank that is not set up correctly with the correct hiding places and what I consider correct food which is natural food with bacteria in it. I am also against a small bare quarantine tank with stark white PVC fittings in it.

That is the only time I would quarantine. (a new tank with dry rock) Of course if I got a fish full of parasites that I get sometimes for free I can and will cure it if I have time. I try not to do that now because since I moved I don't have any spare tank but I did post a few years about a small copperband I got full of parasites. (also in my book) I treated it in copper while using a diatom filter and after a few days, maybe 10, I forgot I put it in my reef. She was fine but my 10 year old copperband didn't like her and chased her all over the place until I caught her and gave him away. All documented.

I also posted and put on a video of 3 shrimpfish I added full of ich. One died but the others lived quite a while until I couldn't keep up with brine shrimp.

You can see one of them here near the end of this short video.



Everything I say I can back up or you can easily read about it as you seem to have done.

 

[Smirkish]

@MnFish1, I believe @Paul B was being facetious when he said that we should intentionally infect our tanks with ich. I doubt he actually wants people’s tanks to crash.

We are already all basically putting potentially ich infested fish into our tanks and waiting to see if they crash, no? (Not saying you’re going out and intentionally buying them like that....)

The discourse in this thread is all just out of a curiosity to see what people’s methods are and how it has worked for them in regard to doing so. Unfortunately saying “yes, definitely quarantine” and “no quarantine necessary” offers little insight into how everything else in their system plays a role.

 

[Kershaw]

Not that anyone asked but here is my opinion.
You have 2 choices
First is QT, you creat a sterile environment in which fish are healthy but have no real immune system. So if you maintain the sterile environment the fish should be fine. But if something makes it in your in trouble.
Option 2
No QT. Let the fish build an immunity, assist by feeding and adding things in that will help build immunity. You may lose fish still especially if you are not actively maintaining the immunity

i think in both cases you can still have a total crash from something getting in that is bad enough. In a “immune” tank ich may not be the killer as it is in a “sterile” tank. But maybe velvet or something else.

so my advise is do what works for you!
Also please step off your high horse if you are condemning people from choosing the path they want. Either way we are ripping these helpless little fish out of the ocean and putting them in prison for enjoyment. I try to give my fish the best foods and best environment as I can and I feel horrible when they die. Not saying we shouldn’t care about them but you won’t change minds that are made up.

P.S. I think a mostly immune tank is possible. But when it comes to parasites I need more education on how a immune system can fight a parasite
Happy reefing

 

[SPR1968]

I dont quarantine because my suppliers say I dont need to, and I trust them, simple as that.

I am aware of suppliers here in the UK who recommend customers do, so I wont buy from them

If you need to then do it, its personal preference depending on many factors but I don't feel the need or want to.

 

[brandon429]

what if all the passions here materialized in the real world and changed the ways 100% of disease help threads are handled coming up today and for the next 1.5 years.

never forget this undercurrent: what happens in the real world is different than the battles here. to see the very real world click this location:

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

I love how we have answers to every question regarding captive fish husbandry but only one set appears for pages over and over above.

I take the fact that qt and fallow runs the whole disease forum to mean that in the future we might have a better way, but as of now there is not one the masses can arrange.

 

[MnFish1]

@MnFish1, I believe @Paul B was being facetious when he said that we should intentionally infect our tanks with ich. I doubt he actually wants people’s tanks to crash.

We are already all basically putting potentially ich infested fish into our tanks and waiting to see if they crash, no? (Not saying you’re going out and intentionally buying them like that....)

The discourse in this thread is all just out of a curiosity to see what people’s methods are and how it has worked for them in regard to doing so. Unfortunately saying “yes, definitely quarantine” and “no quarantine necessary” offers little insight into how everything else in their system plays a role.

What I was saying is that 2 of Pauls statements directly contradicted each other. I believe that Paul has stated again - that he just put 2 sick fish into his tank and assumed they died. I believe the paraphrased 'quote' was something like - I want the parasites in my tank.

I don't completely understand your last point. I have stated many times that the issue is not black and white. I've certainly never said anyone should do anything.

 

[Paul B]

Smirkish, as you can see I am misquoted many times and almost always by MnFish which is why I am not answering him as I am not here to argue and I keep leaving threads because of that.

I would actually like you to read my book and I would give you one but I just looked and I don't have any. I have to buy them like anyone else and when it was published I bought a bunch of them to give away at a book signing party my Daughter threw for me. All the celebrities were there like Christie Brinkley.......

OK, she was a cardboard cut out.



But people on a fish forum gave her to me.

I am the good looking one on the right and that is my Daughter who wrote the Foreword in the book. My best friend and I double for Captain Piccard from Star Trek when we are not SCUBA diving.

 

[Smirkish]

Captain Picard was also an excellent fish keeper if his lion fish was any indicator.

 

[MnFish1]

First is QT, you creat a sterile environment in which fish are healthy but have no real immune system. So if you maintain the sterile environment the fish should be fine. But if something makes it in your in trouble.

This is not true, unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean. 1. What is your definition of 'QT', medication? length? observation? Coral/Fish/inverts (some or all)?
2. A QT tank is not 'sterile'. It (should be) pathogen free. Putting a fish in TTM, or an observation tank, does nothing to its 'immune system', unless you are keeping it there for months perhaps. Even with copper, the tank is not sterile, and the fish's 'biome' is not completely wrecked, and the immune system is 'not destroyed'. There are multiple layers to a fish's immune system. One of the most important is just the coating of slime on the skin which contains multiple chemicals that kill parasites and bacteria.

To me it all comes down to the logic of the 'discussion'. Why did the world attempt to eliminate small pox? By some of the logic here, it seems like that would be a negative. How about malaria, tapeworms, syphilis, gonorrhea, HIV, cholera, etc etc - I don't know of many scientists that suggest that its a good idea that everyone be exposed to these things to 'boost their immune systems'. So to me - there is logic to QT of some sort (I do not personally like prophylactic medication). There are also people that do nothing that are successful. I don't see it as a black and white issue, but rather, as @brandon429 has suggested, I would like to have a better explanation of 'why' one or the other method works. A lot of the 'logic' I read about natural tanks does not make sense (to me).

 

[MnFish1]

Smirkish, as you can see I am misquoted many times and almost always by MnFish which is why I am not answering him as I am not here to argue and I keep leaving threads because of that.

@Paul B. I copied and pasted the 2 posts - that you made - I referenced that were both made within the last 24 hours. They are your words - I did not misquote you. This is what you said - this is what I asked:

Paul B said:
But also what people don't get is that you can't just buy fish and throw them into your tank. They will probably die which is why so many people have a problem and say my system doesn't work.

What exactly is your 'protocol' for introducing new fish that you bought? I would assume thats part of your method?

 

[Smirkish]

Are we sure everyone here understands how vaccines work....

 

[zalick]

LOL Zalic, I see you have been reading my posts and maybe my book. I did use Clorox (in my book) in the 70s and a few times much later but not directly in my tank.

if I somehow came across a tank full of scurvy water where everything died of ich...Iwould probably use Clorox again. It's not a secret.

this is a secret though. Why would you add bleach to tank water where the fish died of ich Like I said, I’ve been on Reef Central, The Reef Tank, Reef Sanctuary , Nano Reef for many years and reading them before I made an account. I know you also have accounts on many other sites.

That is also a quote from my book and it deals with starting a new tank with new rock and water as I posted in my post above.

this was not a quote from your book (though it might be in your book. I haven’t read it). It’s a quote from an article you wrote for reef central in 2009 and posted in Reef Keeping Magazine. You said all knew reefers should quarantine until their tanks are established and mature which may take years. I think many new reefers who follow your method such as @Jekyl would be surprised that you advocate they quarantine until the tank is established and mature.

Yes, they died (I think, I haven't seen them yet but I am still looking) but they were not really my fish yet. I just threw them in my tank and didn't see them for more than 10 seconds.

Who's fish were they when they died from ich?

The vast majority of my fish go on to live out their life to either jump out or die of old age.

This is the first time in recent memory you say most, and not all

In that same store a couple of weeks before I asked the guy (who has been in business for 50 years) to catch me a pair of Ruby Red dragonettes. I got home to fine I have two females. As you can see, I don't put to much time into buying fish especially if they are not the fish I want. The ruby reds are doing fine and now I will look for two males.

How many ruby red dragonettes do you have in the tank?

I have not used bleach in longer than I can remember but I am sure you found somewhere in my book where I used it for something. Actually just yesterday I soaked one of my powerheads in it.

I have not read your book. But you have made many posts in recent memory on the various forums discussing current use of bleach in your water and instructing others in how to do so.

When did I use any parasite control or lose fish to anything except that bleach accident in the last 25 or even 45 years? I don't remember that but I may have to re read my book.

Again, I’ve not read not seen your book, just tour recent posts. I can count 5 times you’ve mentioned losing all/many/most of your fish, except the clowns. You’ve posted that you lost fish three times and you attribute it to zinc. You also had all your fish in a backup tank and most died. Then the bleach incident.

as for parasite control: you’ve stated that you used bleach to eradicate parasites. I can link the post later. And you’ve stated that you used bleach as recently as 2011.

Smirkish is going to read my book so if she likes, she will know my method. My many quotes are often mis quoted on these forums and most people get the wrong idea about how I feel about quarantine.

I’m simply using your exact quotes, and paragraphs dated. Including published articles, in context and with links. What have i

Contrary to popular belief I am not opposed to quarantine as most people quote me as saying. You yourself found it in my book where I advocate some quarantine and I think it has a place in the hobby.

again, I’ve never seen your book. You may not be opposed to quarantine but that’s not the impression given to new reefers in the last 5 years. I know you can’t control what they believe but it may help if you clarify to them that you do not oppose quarantine.

I am against "long" quarantining like 70 days or so and the use of cautionary medication for a long time.
As you said, in my book I advocate only 10 dys quarantine in copper for a completely new tank with "dry rock".

Again, I’ve never seen your book but it’s nice to know now that you do believe in the use of copper under some circumstances. Some readers might find this very enlightening

I am against putting fish, either quarantined or not into a tank that is not set up correctly with the correct hiding places and what I consider correct food which is natural food with bacteria in it. I am also against a small bare quarantine tank with stark white PVC fittings in it.

although I’m not “debating” you on methods (because I generally agree with the vast majority of your methods) I’m leaving this in here because this is important. I agree 100% as this is causes huge stress to fish.

That is the only time I would quarantine. (a new tank with dry rock) Of course if I got a fish full of parasites that I get sometimes for free I can and will cure it if I have time.

can you explain how you would treat and cure it? I’m genuinely curious because it’s not something you’ve mentioned that I’ve seen. I’ve never medicated my fish (except my recent pre medicated fish) and I have a cabinet full of long expired and unopened fish medications.

And Paul - I hope I’m not coming off wrong. I do thank you for your contributions to the hobby and the literally 50,000+ posts on all the forums helping new reefers. I first read about your tank on Reef Central circa 2006 and have really enjoyed following you tank the last 15yrs.

 

[Paul B]

LOL, Zalic, the Clorox does not go in your tank. It goes in water before you add it to your tank, then you have towait 3 days then neutralize it before letting it in your tank. Thats why I said to test it on something "Before" you put it in your reef. I never said to dump Clorox in your tank. I really don't like having to have to disect every word and I am sure you would know what happens if you put Clorox in your tank. I hate to keep saying it but that Clorox method is in my book as a direct quote from "The Father of Salt Water Fish Keeping" Robert Straughn.

this is a secret though. Why would you add bleach to tank water where the fish died of ich Like I said, I’ve been on Reef Central, The Reef Tank, Reef Sanctuary , Nano Reef for many years and reading them before I made an account. I know you also have accounts on many other sites.

Nothing I write is a secret. If you were on Reef Central you will know I sterilized my tank with Clorox "and kept that water in my tank" in the early 70s. Where is the secret? Thats what I did.

You said all knew reefers should quarantine until their tanks are established and mature which may take years.

It will take years and new tanks are never healthy so if I said that in 2009, I meant it then and now I still think a new reefer will have better results if they quarantine until the tank is ready especially if they are using new rock and new ASW. Yes, it may tank years.

I recently said If "I " had to start a new tank now using new stuff I would quarantine for 10 days with copper. If I said something different, I changed my mind since then.

I also changed my mind about parasites since the 70s. I even wrote an article in I think FAMMA magazine saying I don't think fish could become immune to parasites as it is like being immune to bullets. I learned since then that my assumption was wrong and my fish are totally immune to parasites and I posted the scientific articles which states how and it is from the bacteria in food. Nothing I write is a secret.

Who's fish were they when they died from ich?

You mean those two cardinals last week. My fish. And although I have said this thousands of times. Fish don't magically get cured as soon as I put them in my tank. You are getting like MnFish now with this as you know all of this already. But I am having fun. I have to go out in a little while but I have a few minutes for this.

Again, I’ve not read not seen your book, just tour recent posts. I can count 5 times you’ve mentioned losing all/many/most of your fish, except the clowns. You’ve posted that you lost fish three times and you attribute it to zinc. You also had all your fish in a backup tank and most died. Then the bleach incident.

Oh yes the zinc. (also in my book, no secret) I forgot about that as I forget many things that happened 30 or 40 years ago. I changed water and instantly the fish started jumping out. I didn't know what was happening so I called my water supply company in New York. They told me they added Zinc Orthophosphate to the water to control corrosion in the water supply. Also no secret. Why do you want to keep quoting all the things I already posted all over the place. Where is the secret. I am sure if you look back far enough you will find all sorts of things I did but I don't think you will find my fish died from a communicable disease, but keep looking. That is a lot of reading.

Again, I’ve never seen your book but it’s nice to know now that you do believe in the use of copper under some circumstances. Some readers might find this very enlightening

I also said many times that if there was no copper, there would be no salt water fish hobby because thats the main thing stores use to keep their fish parasite free "looking" before they sell them.

although I’m not “debating” you on methods (because I generally agree with the vast majority of your methods) I’m leaving this in here because this is important. I agree 100% as this is causes huge stress to fish.

Well thank you because many people get that wrong and it is very important no matter what you do.

can you explain how you would treat and cure it? I’m genuinely curious because it’s not something you’ve mentioned that I’ve seen. I’ve never medicated my fish (except my recent pre medicated fish) and I have a cabinet full of long expired and unopened fish medications.

Yes I can. When I get a sick fish for free or some other way like my last copperband I put it in a spare tank with real hiding places using red bricks like they use for building houses. Not PVC and not coral rock.

I add the proper amount of copper. I use stuff that was made in Brooklyn in the 70s and it also has formalin in it.
because thats the only bottle of copper I ever bought.



I put in my diatom filter which will remove any parasites that fall off the fish. I will leave the fish in there for about ten days or a little less. If I have quinicrine hydrocloride I will add that with the copper. Again, I didn't discover that. (but I invented mixing them, I think) It is in one of my fish disease books and as a malaria medication it interrupts the life cycle of the paracite at a different point than copper. At least thats what I got out of it as I am an electrician, not a doctor but I can say it works very fast. It is a prescription medication and I can't get it any more as I used to know the pharmacist.

I can find you the dosage if you are interested.

And Paul - I hope I’m not coming off wrong.

No, I don't find this annoying and as I keep saying. Everything I have ever done with my tank I posted or wrote about in my book.

Anyone is welcome to come to my house on Long Island and we can talk fish and I can show my method. I have been invited to speak on this at 3 aquarium societies in different places in the US.

Everyone with common sense knows that if you put a half dead fish in your tank, or Moses tank, it may die or if you pour Clorox in your tank your fish will die and I don't like it when people say "fish die in my tank". Yes, all my fish die eventually but if they die of old age, who cares.

A person did once write to me saying I killed all his fish because he poured a cup of Clorox into his tank "Full of fish". Like really!

I don't like being mis quoted or having things taken out of context. As a matter of fact I wrote the book so I woudn't get into these long discussions and no one argues with anything I wrote in the book because it is about my methods. I also don't get a cent from the book as it all goes to MS research in my wife's name so i am not getting rich off of it.

I also have never sold anything from my tank including fish, rocks filters etc. I always gave it away and if I ever win anything on one of these forums, I will give it to the person who I feel needs it more.

Many people feel I make this stuff up and just want to pick apart every word I ever wrote decades ago to argue with me.

Those people need to find a new hobby or write their own book. Maybe call it "PaulB doesn't know a hermit crab from an Aardvark. "

 

[Marc2952]

Is say QT is definitely necessary specially nowadays and i dont just mean fish. Ive had to go fallow 3 times ( 4 with this one) because i QT my fish but refused to QT corals as it was just more work. Im now having to drain my tank to catch my fish since ich is back in the tank after adding some corals.

 

[cryptodendrum]

Are we sure everyone here understands how vaccines work....

RFID Vaccines gave my fish autism and turned them into bovines, but the 5G reception in the house is a lot better.

 

[Futuretotm]

No one quarantines until they’re stung by velvet and lose everything, then everyone changes their minds

Including me

 

[zalick]

LOL, Zalic, the Clorox does not go in your tank. It goes in water before you add it to your tank, then you have towait 3 days then neutralize it before letting it in your tank. Thats why I said to test it on something "Before" you put it in your reef. I never said to dump Clorox in your tank. I really don't like having to have to disect every word and I am sure you would know what happens if you put Clorox in your tank. I hate to keep saying it but that Clorox method is in my book as a direct quote from "The Father of Salt Water Fish Keeping" Robert Straughn.


Nothing I write is a secret. If you were on Reef Central you will know I sterilized my tank with Clorox "and kept that water in my tank" in the early 70s. Where is the secret? Thats what I did.

Direct quote from you about adding directly to the display tank.

Unorthodox ways to do things

www.thereeftank.com