Is RODI water safe to drink?

[Malcontent]

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was under the impression that rodi water cannot grow bacteria due to the absence of electrolytes. We're you referring to reverse osmosis water growing bacteria or are there specific strains that can actually grow in rodi water?

The concern is bacteria growing between the RO and the DI (which is well established to happen), then colonies breaking loose and surviving to the drinking water, not that they literally "grow" in the DI.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not only should bacteria technically not be able to survive (maybe rare extremophiles can), but it would need to break the laws of physics in order to grow.

If anybody has any further information on this please let us know

I've presented the reasons this is not an appropriate explanation of bacteria in RO/DI water.

Your rules of physics hyperbole is also incorrect as RO/DI certainly has ions in it.

 

[Phildago]

I've presented the reasons this is not an appropriate explanation of bacteria in RO/DI water.

Your rules of physics hyperbole is also incorrect as RO/DI certainly has ions in it.

This isn't what I was requesting at all. Im not familiar with the literature on bacterial species that can survive in such conditions and was exploring curiosity.

If you can't explain something properly then please don't call it hyperbole. I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for you and taking your time to help us out on these forums but things still require evidence. The amount of force exerted on a cell by rodi water is immense, and the energy required to maintain homeostasis in such an environment equally as great. So, in an environment of sparse nutrition where is the energy coming from? Let alone any energy and physical mass needed for replication.

Maybe they could form endospores and forgo some of the energy requirements for survival, but in either case reproduction would seem like a physical impossibility. Also, maybe this is hyperbole, but simply stating that it is does not make it such.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This isn't what I was requesting at all. Im not familiar with the literature on bacterial species that can survive in such conditions and was exploring curiosity.

If you can't explain something properly then please don't call it hyperbole. I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for you and taking your time to help us out on these forums but things still require evidence. The amount of force exerted on a cell by rodi water is immense, and the energy required to maintain homeostasis in such an environment equally as great. So, in an environment of sparse nutrition where is the energy coming from? Let alone any energy and physical mass needed for replication.

Maybe they could form endospores and forgo some of the energy requirements for survival, but in either case reproduction would seem like a physical impossibility. Also, maybe this is hyperbole, but simply stating that it is does not make it such.

Sorry if you did not mean that the laws of physics statement as hyperbole. It could be applied to any question at Reef2Reef where the answer is no, and consequently seems to be hyperbole to me.

Instead of debating whether bacteria can "grow" in RO/DI, let's look at whether pathogenic bacteria may be present in RO/Di, since that is the pertinent question and the one that makes RO/DI undrinkable, IMO, if it is not properly sanitized.

Let's start with whether pathogenic bacteria can live in reverse osmosis water, upstream of the DI. According to this paper, bacteria can grow in water purified by reverse osmosis:

Assessment of the extent of bacterial growth in reverse osmosis system for improving drinking water quality.

Assessment of the extent of bacterial growth in reverse osmosis system for improving drinking water quality - PubMed

This study was carried out to assess reverse osmosis (RO) treatment efficacy of drinking water in terms of biological stability in the distribution system. Two flat-sheet RO membranes were used in this study. Experiments were designed to investigate the growth of biofilm and bulk phase bacteria...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"More than 99% of bacterial cells in the tap water was retained by the RO membranes, leaving <50 cells/mL in the permeate water. In spite of the low nutrient contents and few cells in the RO permeates, monitoring of the model distribution systems receiving the RO permeates showed that remarkable biofilm accumulation and bulk cell growth occurred in the RO permeate water. "

So then one has the potential for bacteria to grow between the RO membrane and the DI, potentially releasing cells and colonies into the water. The only thing left to remove them is the DI. Does it?

The CDC says no:

Water Use in Dialysis | Dialysis Safety | CDC

Guidelines and recommendations for dialysis water quality and dialysate.

www.cdc.gov

"Deionization (DI) unit does not remove or destroy bacteria, so if DI is being used as the main water treatment (rather than RO), you will need a submicron or endotoxin/ultrafilter downstream of the DI unit. "

Lennentech, a company that makes a lot of commercial water purification technologies, also says no to DI killing bacteria:

Deionized - Demineralized Water - Lenntech

Deionized, demineralized and distilled water and measuring of the purity

www.lenntech.com

"Deionization: Process utilizing special-manufactured ion exchange resins which remove ionised salts from water. Can theoretically remove 100 % of salts. Deionization typically does not remove organics, virus or bacteria except through “accidental” trapping in the resin and specially made strong base anion resins which will remove gram-negative bacteria."

Consequently, there is the potential for bacteria to grow in RO water, break loose and pass through the DI, into a person drinking it.

Likely not a common event, but uncommon things happen when tried millions of times.

 

[Phildago]

Sorry if you did not mean that the laws of physics statement as hyperbole. It could be applied to any question at Reef2Reef where the answer is no, and consequently seems to be hyperbole to me.

Instead of debating whether bacteria can "grow" in RO/DI, let's look at whether pathogenic bacteria may be present in RO/Di, since that is the pertinent question and the one that makes RO/DI undrinkable, IMO, if it is not properly sanitized.

Let's start with whether pathogenic bacteria can live in reverse osmosis water, upstream of the DI. According to this paper, bacteria can grow in water purified by reverse osmosis:

Assessment of the extent of bacterial growth in reverse osmosis system for improving drinking water quality.

Assessment of the extent of bacterial growth in reverse osmosis system for improving drinking water quality - PubMed

This study was carried out to assess reverse osmosis (RO) treatment efficacy of drinking water in terms of biological stability in the distribution system. Two flat-sheet RO membranes were used in this study. Experiments were designed to investigate the growth of biofilm and bulk phase bacteria...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"More than 99% of bacterial cells in the tap water was retained by the RO membranes, leaving <50 cells/mL in the permeate water. In spite of the low nutrient contents and few cells in the RO permeates, monitoring of the model distribution systems receiving the RO permeates showed that remarkable biofilm accumulation and bulk cell growth occurred in the RO permeate water. "

So then one has the potential for bacteria to grow between the RO membrane and the DI, potentially releasing cells and colonies into the water. The only thing left to remove them is the DI. Does it?

The CDC says no:

Water Use in Dialysis | Dialysis Safety | CDC

Guidelines and recommendations for dialysis water quality and dialysate.

www.cdc.gov

"Deionization (DI) unit does not remove or destroy bacteria, so if DI is being used as the main water treatment (rather than RO), you will need a submicron or endotoxin/ultrafilter downstream of the DI unit. "

Lennentech, a company that makes a lot of commercial water purification technologies, also says no to DI killing bacteria:

Deionized - Demineralized Water - Lenntech

Deionized, demineralized and distilled water and measuring of the purity

www.lenntech.com

"Deionization: Process utilizing special-manufactured ion exchange resins which remove ionised salts from water. Can theoretically remove 100 % of salts. Deionization typically does not remove organics, virus or bacteria except through “accidental” trapping in the resin and specially made strong base anion resins which will remove gram-negative bacteria."

Consequently, there is the potential for bacteria to grow in RO water, break loose and pass through the DI, into a person drinking it.

Likely not a common event, but uncommon things happen when tried millions of times.

Thank you. May I point out that even the authors thought it would be a "biologically unstable environment" lol, but joking aside I was literally meaning that the laws of physics would prevent growth of bacteria. I do need to work on how I word things a bit better when speaking technically because I definitely misspoke with saying the absence of electrolytes. I didnt mean it as if there were no period, but I did mean it as the absence of necessary electrolytes to maintain tonicity.

Really interesting stuff though. I for sure agree that you want it to be a sure thing, or just simply not chance it at all. It's a number game at that point.

 

[Aqua Man]

Good read!!

We have well water, so no chlorine or any kind of sanitizers. To me our water tastes pretty good, although a little earthy after in rains real good. My wife prefers distilled or RO. May need to look into at least sanitizing my RO unit.

Are all filters created equal? Filters from BRS for example. Or do I need to buy filters for my RO from someone that’s in the water business.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good read!!

We have well water, so no chlorine or any kind of sanitizers. To me our water tastes pretty good, although a little earthy after in rains real good. My wife prefers distilled or RO. May need to look into at least sanitizing my RO unit.

Are all filters created equal? Filters from BRS for example. Or do I need to buy filters for my RO from someone that’s in the water business.

BRS buys then from water business companies.

 

[Perthegallon]

Would it be unhealthy because it's filtered too much?

Last question...can you use this in an iron since all the metals are filtered out.

I wanna make coffee with it or use in baby bottles.

It’s safe for a short time as you won’t get essential nutrients in the body so don’t drink it often

 

[Steeda095]

I hooked my RODI system to my ice maker and sink dispenser and have been drinking it for about 4years. No issues. Your body has an immune system for a reason. Let it work for you and keep it strong.

 

[MT. Reefer]

Good read!!

We have well water, so no chlorine or any kind of sanitizers. To me our water tastes pretty good, although a little earthy after in rains real good. My wife prefers distilled or RO. May need to look into at least sanitizing my RO unit.

Are all filters created equal? Filters from BRS for example. Or do I need to buy filters for my RO from someone that’s in the water business.

We too have well water here in Montana. A 400 ft well at that. Our water has tons of calcium in it so I thought my corals would love it, and they did. Then one day my wife said, water tastes a little funny today. Not paying any attention I went ahead and did a water change the next day. The following day, all the fish were dead. Since then, no tap water for anything. Not sure what was in it all of a sudden but I started going to the store for RO water until I could get a BRS 7 stage RODI unit hooked up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I hooked my RODI system to my ice maker and sink dispenser and have been drinking it for about 4years. No issues. Your body has an immune system for a reason. Let it work for you and keep it strong.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but the fact that you have not suffered apparent harm demonstrates nothing about whether it may or may not be a risky procedure.

 

[guylaga]

Just saw this thread...

So can I keeping using my RODI water to make coffee in the morning or not?

 

[holdthecoffee]

I say it’s safe to drink Rodi water.

There’s literally a mass marketed product called zerowater that uses ion exchange resin to make zero tds water for you to drink. If it was unsafe the fda would have stepped in or we would be seeing millions of people with issues.

Disclaimer: I personally drink the water that comes out of the RO section before it hits the resin. I just don’t see the need to drink 0 tds pure water or waste money making it for drinking.

 

[a.t.t.r]

It is perfectly safe unless you are not eating and it is your only source of fluid.

 

[Hans-Werner]

So can I keeping using my RODI water to make coffee in the morning or not?

Coffee beans are seeds releasing not only coffein but also minerals like potassium stored in the seeds. Maybe you are drinking your coffee with milk and /or sugar, which both adds further minerals or osmotically active substance respectively.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is perfectly safe unless you are not eating and it is your only source of fluid.

Perhaps you heat the water hot enough for long enough to kill bacteria. If so, then I agree. if not, then I obviously do not agree with this generalization.

If it certainly a health risk if making cold brew,.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is perfectly safe unless you are not eating and it is your only source of fluid.

Ions are not any sort of risk.

Bacteria are the risk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I say it’s safe to drink Rodi water.

There’s literally a mass marketed product called zerowater that uses ion exchange resin to make zero tds water for you to drink. If it was unsafe the fda would have stepped in or we would be seeing millions of people with issues.

Disclaimer: I personally drink the water that comes out of the RO section before it hits the resin. I just don’t see the need to drink 0 tds pure water or waste money making it for drinking.

Zero water is different than an RO/DI.

Ignore the ions. They are no health concern. But that does not guarantee safety.

Bacteria can readily grow after the RO membrane and before the DI of an RO/DI system. That is why sanitizing RO systems for drinking water is strongly recommended.

The zerowater has no such place for bacteria to grow.

 

[Waboss]

For me, I think I've minimized the risk sufficiently that I don't worry about it. My household does drink RO/DI water from the same system that I use for my tanks. BUT, I do take some precautions by back flushing the RO membrane regularly and sanitizing the whole system (including the drinking water storage tank) at least once a year (usually twice).

This has worked for me for over 20 years, and while I'm not saying it's any sort of real "proof", it's and example of what I think is a responsible way to minimize the risk of "bad" bacteria.