Is this a design flaw from Red Sea? Please help me with this sump upgrade Max e170 (Sump and tank connection)

[Nadiaa]

Please help me and give me your opinion and share your knowledge about sump construction.
Others i have talked to, who ownes the same tank thinks it is a design flaw, but Red Sea have not been helpfull when they got intouch with them.

This is a tank that comes with a rear sump, but you can upgrade to a in-cabinet sump by bying Red Seas sump upgrade kit, which i have done.
The tank has already holes for pipping with plugs in them. When you upgrade to the in-cabinet sump, you just remove the 3 plugs and install the plumping and you put in a open flow grill (the picture with the red arrow) instead of the old closed one.

So, the problem is getting the waterlevel to stay the same in the in-cabinet sumps returnpump chamber and in the overflow (the old rear sump).
No matter what i do, the water will slowly rise in the overflow, eventually causing the water to go down the emergency pipe.
Because of this, the return pump chamber cant keep the same waterlevel either, making it impossible to install my ATO.

Red Sea reccomend to get a returnpump with a flow of at least 2700 lph. I bought the Sicce Syncra SDC 6.0 which has a minimum flow rate of 2000 and a maximum flow rate 5500 (lph), and i can adjust the flow with a controller.
I have, of course, adjustet the pump MANY times, but with the same outcome.

My question:
So, the "old returnpump" (the pump that was used when the sump was working as a rear sump, is still in the setup. And the chamber where it is located is in direct watercontact with the chamber where the pipes are (the main downpipe and the emergency pipe), as you can see on the picture from the manual.
In the "old returnpump" chamber is also a open flowgrill, as i mentioned above, (the red arrow on the picture), so this chamber gets water from the display tank, which means the overflow (old rear sump) and display tank is connected.
The people i have talked to, who also deals with this problem, thinks that this is a design flaw because the evaporation from the entire surface will affect the water level in the overflow. Instead of a small overflow having insignificant evaporation, you have evaporation from the entire display tank affecting the waterlevels, because the overflow and the display tank are connected.

Can you please tell me, will i ever be able to solve this problem, as long as the overflow and display tank are connected?
Or is it me who are doing something wrong?

 

[exnisstech]

Sounds like you need to adjust the diaphragm valve. I have two RS tanks and the valves are finicky and that's being kind. Very minor adjustment are needed with time in between each. Valve needs to be open more or the pump turned down if water is going down the emergency drain I almost always have a trickle going down. This is where mine runs on my 170

 

[Nadiaa]

Sounds like you need to adjust the diaphragm valve. I have two RS tanks and the valves are finicky and that's being kind. Very minor adjustment are needed with time in between each. Valve needs to be open more or the pump turned down if water is going down the emergency drain I almost always have a trickle going down. This is where mine runs on my 170

I have tried to adjust the flow valve 10000 times. When I get the right water level, the system will run smooth for some time, but will ALWAYS end up with the water level rising in the overflow. No mather how I adjust the pump OR the flow valve.

 

[exnisstech]

Are you running a fleece roller? I've heard of them causing fluctuations in sump level. Sorry thats all I have for ideas

 

[Nadiaa]

Are you running a fleece roller? I've heard of them causing fluctuations in sump level. Sorry thats all I have for ideas

No, no fleece roller. Thank you for your answers anyway <3

 

[Pod_01]

and you put in a open flow grill (the picture with the red arrow) instead of the old closed one.

Maybe I am not seeing something but that should not be a grill but closed plug. As far as I know the overflow chamber should be separated from the main tank (separate/ its own tank) and that grill just connects the two. Since they are connected they will have same water level. Unless there is some baffle that is missing in the picture.

Can you plug it and try?

 

[Nadiaa]

There was a closed flowgrill before, but according to the Red Sea manual, the flow grill is to be replaced when you upgrade to the in-cabinet sump, with a open flowgrill.
I do not think I will work with the closed one, because the "old returnpump" I still in the setup, and it gets water from the open flowgrill.

 

[Pod_01]

There was a closed flowgrill before, but according to the Red Sea manual, the flow grill is to be replaced when you upgrade to the in-cabinet sump, with a open flowgrill.
I do not think I will work with the closed one, because the "old returnpump" I still in the setup, and it gets water from the open flowgrill.

Physics (fluid dynamics ) dictates that if two connected containers, filed with fluid and exposed to same atmospheric pressure (gravity as well) will have equal water level. Assuming the connection is at some low point like in your case.
The old pump also needs to be removed or the hose closed off.

Maybe the old pump nozzle and the new grill need to be connected???

Based on the picture the system is not going to work. The overflow chamber is not acting like an overflow.

 

[Nadiaa]

Physics (fluid dynamics ) dictates that if two connected containers, filed with fluid and exposed to same atmospheric pressure (gravity as well) will have equal water level. Assuming the connection is at some low point like in your case.
The old pump also needs to be removed or the hose closed off.

Maybe the old pump nozzle and the new grill need to be connected???

Based on the picture the system is not going to work. The overflow chamber is not acting like an overflow.

According to Red Sea, the system on the picture should work like a sump, where you only have to fill water, caused by evaporation, in the returnpump chamber. But I does not work.
I do not understand what you mean by "the old pump nozzle and the new grill need to be connected?
If I remove the old returnpump, and somehow close both holes, the water will just stand still in the "old returnpump" chamber :/

 

[Pod_01]

According to Red Sea, the system on the picture should work like a sump, where you only have to fill water, caused by evaporation, in the returnpump chamber. But I does not work.
I do not understand what you mean by "the old pump nozzle and the new grill need to be connected?
If I remove the old returnpump, and somehow close both holes, the water will just stand still in the "old returnpump" chamber :/

No you got it. That is how I would interpret the design.

But I looked up the manual online and you have it set up correct.

You did the item 16. But looking at item 22 it seems now you need to turn your new return pump and the old (circulation pump) on. I guess the old circulation pump is set at 100%. I think you did this.

Odd design. I think the idea of balancing two pumps is causing the problem or making it lot worse.

But I will be honest, even on my Reefer 250 the stock setup is painful to set and water always creeps to the emergency overflow.