Kz Zeovit new products

[Bugger]

Randy what is your take on the new zeovit line up
https://reefbuilders.com/2016/05/13/coral-system-korallen-zucht-zeovit/
They are ready to play ball and list what is in the product
Is it safe to put that many chemicals together without the elements getting altered?
Can a regular water change schedual make up for what the product would add to a tank
Im guessing they are banking on this to be in every tank as the prices are reasonable
Do corals actual need any of the stuff in the bottles
has there been any studies?]\
Does this mean the old stuff is obsoulete and be discontinued

 

[Bugger]

Come on this is huge they labeled the bottles and nobody wants to talk about it
Its strange

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

R
Is it safe to put that many chemicals together without the elements getting altered?
Can a regular water change schedual make up for what the product would add to a tank

Many chemicals can be mixed without issue (that is how good two parts work), and some cannot, but without knowing the forms, all I can do is expect the they know what they are doing in terms of mixing.

They are only partly labeled. They do not claim to list all ingredients and list no amounts. Some of the chemicals may be in the description, I hypothesize, simply to distract. Rubidium? It has no known biological function in any organism. Unless it is present to poison zoox and reduce the levels, I can't imagine why it is there. But as a way to make it seem special and different? Sure. Analyze any chemical and you find all other chemicals if your instruments are good enough. It doesn't mean it is there is any effective amount.

Without knowing how much of what is there, it is hard to compare to a water change. But my tank was a bit low in some of these ingredients (such as vanadium) despite water changes (1% daily with IO).

 

[jason2459]

Looks like IO at least doesn't have enough V to be detected by Triton.

I'm not sure I like products that contain so many different elements. If I were to get into a method/program of dosing what's needed I'd want individual or as few elements as possible in a single product and if able mix my own for my tanks needs. I.E. Triton's method.

 

[ksed]

Interesting that RC has more Iodine and Iron than IO

 

[jason2459]

I would expect RC or any "reef" specific salt to include more elements then a "marine" or basic salt mix. Like the Tropic Marine Pro is their reef specific salt and also includes higher Fe.

 

[ksed]

Not according to the manufacturer. The y claim the only differences are the elevated calcium, magnesium, alk, and the added vitamins. All the rest should be the same.

 

[reefwiser]

If I were to get into a method/program of dosing what's needed I'd want individual or as few elements as possible in a single product and if able mix my own for my tanks needs. I.E. Triton's method.

You would want to do GlennF's DSR method which the first method developed to dose elements individually.

 

[jason2459]

You would want to do GlennF's DSR method which the first method developed to dose elements individually.

Yes, his method is another example. I don't know about firsts but he does seem successful with it.

I don't personally want to do either method or one like it.

 

[jason2459]

Not according to the manufacturer. The y claim the only differences are the elevated calcium, magnesium, alk, and the added vitamins. All the rest should be the same.

Should be yes but along with those increases in the major elements come the possibilities of more impurities. But thats what they say or at least what they believe or just what they care to disclose.

 

[reefwiser]

The point about these newer dosing methods is always keeping the water parameters at NSW. An checking the tanks water and making adjustments to NSW.
This achieves stable water chemistry which encourages coral growth the more stable the water the better the environment for corals in your tank.

 

[jason2459]

The point about these newer dosing methods is always keeping the water parameters at NSW. An checking the tanks water and making adjustments to NSW.
This achieves stable water chemistry which encourages coral growth the more stable the water the better the environment for corals in your tank.

But what about locations where water chemistry is constantly changing? There's areas where salinity shifts seasonally, monthly, weekly, and even daily or meteorologically. Corals can acclimate to some unique conditions. So, when you get some corals what conditions are you going to try and mimic? From what location? Yes, we have canonical surface level averages of which range in parameters.

 

[reefwiser]

Ehsan Dashti spent a few years research and taking water samples of Reef areas around the world and there is a basic standard for what constitutes NSW.
An of coarse Randy has wrote about this http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/
The problem with just saying a certain area is that all the corals in ones tank are not from just one area of the ocean. While Salinity can change the chemistry is change by run off from the land. We have found that if one has stable parameters and can maintain it your tank you will have success.

 

[jason2459]

Ehsan Dashti spent a few years research and taking water samples of Reef areas around the world and there is a basic standard for what constitutes NSW.
An of coarse Randy has wrote about this http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/
The problem with just saying a certain area is that all the corals in ones tank are not from just one area of the ocean. While Salinity can change the chemistry is change by run off from the land. We have found that if one has stable parameters and can maintain it your tank you will have success.

Oh, I'm completely aware of those standards and article which is why I pointed out we typically look for staying with in ranges of our parameters. So, if one gets into chasing numbers to constantly dose to stay in a particular tight range (Triton Set points) this can be problematic in two ways I see.

One, is the result of the test that you are trying to adjust for accurate? This can cause a lot of anxiety and confusion.

Two, trying to keep water chemistry too stable is not very natural and can cause issues when instability happens. I feel like if parameters are allowed to drift with in an acceptable range the corals can acclimate to quick changes just like they have to in nature. So, lets say when there's a power outage, or an ATO gets stuck, or an AWC gets plugged on one of the hoses, or doser stops or doesn't stop, etc. the corals are less apt to stress out as much. It seems like the long climate changes that takes decades causes more stress as coral bleaching around the world shows. But the quick seasonal to daily swings are just fine. There may be damage and some corals may not fully recover but many will.

One thing I do on my system that the Apex provides is the seasonal table. I base my entire system on that seasonal table. My temp swings seasonally, daily, and through out the day. My lights shift a little each day and increase and decrease in time and intensity seasonally. My lunar lights go on and off and adjust intensity with the moon phases. Both adjust intensity on rise, peak, and setting. The direction my pumps (maxspect gyres) run changes 4 times a day in coordination with the lunar cycle and offset by earths friction timing with the tidal bulge. They also ramp up and down in intensity during the switch in direciton. This changes in times every day.

It's all very dynamic. My corals have spawned (each at different times due to their native locations) several times now I believe due to this.

Fish love it as they get a free snack. From my Duncan.

 

[reefwiser]

I am always working toward a stable tank. When you create an unstable tank you can send corals into a pause state where they will stop growing Always hoping to keep this even. I do automation work and really don't use aquarium controllers on my system. If I wanted to I would just bring home an Allen Bradley cpu and roll my own.

 

[jason2459]

I dont disagree with trying to achieve stability but I believe consistency is more important and with that comes stability.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The point about these newer dosing methods is always keeping the water parameters at NSW. An checking the tanks water and making adjustments to NSW.
This achieves stable water chemistry which encourages coral growth the more stable the water the better the environment for corals in your tank.

Unfortunately, there's no hobbyist way to detect natural levels of many trace element s (iron, for example, even by Triton), so there is still either guesswork, or raising levels above NSW.

 

[reefwiser]

We use what we have available which is more than what we have had in the past. We have tools available to us as hobbyist to discover the answers to the problems we all suffer from. In the past we have only had guesses as to what is going on in our Reef aquariums now we have a little more insight into what is actually going on.

 

[McMullen]

Not a KZ fan! Pretty bottles and labels with clever marketing! There is another post discussing some of there products, stuff you can buy on your own for a fraction of the cost. One product to get that "pastel," color in acros is simply copper!!!!! No thanks KZ!