Lowest cost and easiest way to eliminate green hair, bubble, turf and slime algae from your aquarium

Young Frankenstein · Jul 11, 2012

Ace25 said:
It is just a different type of mentality towards filtration. Some people think algae is a nuisance and do all they can to eradicate every last little bit of it. Others choose to utilize the algae and put it to work for them in the location of their choosing instead of fighting it in the display.

I used to think like the first, but after many years of doing it that way my wallet finally said enough was enough. Constant $ on water changes, GFO, and various other equipment. That method does work fine, it just requires a lot of equipment and $ in the long run. With utilizing algae you get some great benefits to your filtration. One of my tanks has only run an algae scrubber since day 1 and it is doing great.

Personally I don't think using algae is the end all / be all method to filtration, I do think other filtration methods should still be utilized along with an algae scrubber, but for the cost vs benefit aspect of them they can't be beat. I used to think a skimmer was the most important piece to a reef tank, now I think they are the least important, and utilizing algae is the best, cheapest, and most natural way to keep water quality good. I used to use caulerpa in the past, and it worked great, but there are worries that come with using that. Cheato works also, but from my experience doesn't grow fast enough to keep up with most tanks, even moderately feeding. Since I switched to using algae scrubbers I can feed more food to my tank than my wallet likes. I go through 10 packs of cubed frozen food + 2 large packs of rods every month on my 75G. I was actually against algae scrubbers at first, I made one to prove they didn't work, but to my surprise they ended up working better than I could have imagined.

Ace i disagree with you

without the skimmer there is no reef tank

where your ph would be without it?, you would need a scrubber bigger than your tank

SantaMonica · Jul 12, 2012

A scrubber will typically raise the pH by 0.1 to 0.2, because of the photosynthesis.

Ace25 · Jul 12, 2012

Young Frankenstein said:
Ace i disagree with you without the skimmer there is no reef tank where your ph would be without it?, you would need a scrubber bigger than your tank

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As I said, I once thought that same way, but all the articles from AdvancedAquarist showing skimmers don't function nearly as well as we thought has made me change my mind to the point I no longer use them, and notice 0 difference on my tank that used to run a Bubble Magus NAC7 skimmer. Here is one of my tanks.. and my filtration, since day 1.

No pH problems at all. I have a heater, 2 pumps (algae scrubber pump and return pump), and a bag of purigen in my sump, that is all I use for filtration.

WesF · Jul 12, 2012

Ace I hope you don't take this as an insult because your tank looks very nice but I consider all of your corals "easy" and can do well even in "dirty" tanks.

Are there any full blown SPS tanks thriving with the no skimmer/turf scrubber method?

Honestly curious, not antagonistic.

Ace25 · Jul 12, 2012

You are correct, the corals in that tank above are all considered "easy" corals. Here is my other tank that is also run by the same filtration with one difference, the addition of some type of phosphate control. This tank is older and used to be run using a skimmer and GFO/Rox Carbon before I switched a few years ago. There are many people that have nice SPS tanks using scrubbers, most of them can be found on the scubber thread on RC, but for SPS tanks other filtration methods are required (ie. some extra form of phosphate control). Last month I ran out of GFO and let me tank go with "scubber only" and my phosphates went from .05 up to .41 in 30 days simply by not using a secondary method to control phosphates, nitrates were still a solid 0 though.

Closeup of a coral on the frag rack on the right hand side.

WesF · Jul 12, 2012

Nice! Thanks

-Logzor · Jul 12, 2012

Young Frankenstein said:
Ace i disagree with you without the skimmer there is no reef tank where your ph would be without it?, you would need a scrubber bigger than your tank

Of course there is a reef tank without skimmers, mighty successful ones I might add.

Steve Tyree runs his system without a skimmer. I'd say he's been pretty successful. I'm sure you've heard of him.

Opening a window has a bigger impact on my pH than my skimmer does. Meaning, the air coming in contact with the water surface is plenty to control pH.

Ace - Beautiful tank and nice work!

spscrazy · Jul 12, 2012

Ace I like the box you have your scrubber in can you tell me where you got it how much etc thanks

spscrazy · Jul 12, 2012

looking harder I'm thinking a black 10g tank?

Ace25 · Jul 12, 2012

spscrazy said:
Ace I like the box you have your scrubber in can you tell me where you got it how much etc thanks

The "box" is just a standard 20G tall tank that I painted black all the way around and use as a sump. Here is what the algae scrubber looks like outside of the sump.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Petco is having their $1/gallon sale now, so you can pick one up for $20.

WillKatt · Jul 12, 2012

Please share a little more about this how dos this setup work?

spscrazy · Jul 12, 2012

what are you using ace for inflow & outflow??

Pkunk35 · Jul 12, 2012

Ace25 said:
The "box" is just a standard 20G tall tank that I painted black all the way around and use as a sump. Here is what the algae scrubber looks like outside of the sump.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Petco is having their $1/gallon sale now, so you can pick one up for $20.

Love this design. Hope you don't mind if i copy it someday...currently my algae scrubber is the back wall of my tank :tongue:

I run no skimmer on my 20 long mixed reef. You don't "need" a skimmer, but it doesn't really hurt to have that extra bit of insurance for your tank.

I think they are considered "necessary" by a lot of reefers b/c it is a device that all beginners are told that they can not do without. For all practical reasons, that statement is way more true than false, although people can run healthy systems without one.

Young Frankenstein · Jul 12, 2012

Ace25 said:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As I said, I once thought that same way, but all the articles from AdvancedAquarist showing skimmers don't function nearly as well as we thought has made me change my mind to the point I no longer use them, and notice 0 difference on my tank that used to run a Bubble Magus NAC7 skimmer. Here is one of my tanks.. and my filtration, since day 1. No pH problems at all. I have a heater, 2 pumps (algae scrubber pump and return pump), and a bag of purigen in my sump, that is all I use for filtration.

Ace change your nic name to "against all odds " LOL i like that, i am the same way, but as stated bellow my friend those are easy corals

Anyway can you post a link for the article ? i would like to read that. Steadty 8.2+PH in my book = lighting, aeration

Ace25 · Jul 12, 2012

spscrazy said:
what are you using ace for inflow & outflow??

Tank 1 "easy corals" uses cheap pumps, I think an old 700GPH catalina pump for the scrubber and a 700GPH ViaAqua pump for the return.
Tank 2 "SPS corals" uses my overflow to feed the Algae scrubber, return pump I use is an eheim 1262 in a 55G sump, pictures below.

Pkunk35: Let's just agree to disagree on skimmers. I really don't feel like getting into a skimmer debate in this thread. I have seen the proof both from scientific studies as well as first hand, I know skimmers are almost pointless, but that is not to say they are harmful. If you have one, run it, if you don't have one though, no reason to buy one IMO because a small bag of ROX carbon will remove well over 80% of the bad stuff from the water, where as a skimmer is lucky to remove 35% of the same stuff, meaning carbon is over 2x better than a skimmer at removing the same bad stuff. Skimmers do help if you overfeed and want to remove the larger food particles out of the water quickly, but as long as you don't overfeed to the point your system can't handle it, then I would rather let the food move around freely in the tank as long as possible in order to feed the tank, not feed the skimmer.

Ace25 · Jul 12, 2012

Best skimmer articles written to date:
Feature Article: The Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Feature Article: Further Studies on Protein Skimmer Performance — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Feature Article: Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water? — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Young Frankenstein · Jul 12, 2012

-Logzor said:
Of course there is a reef tank without skimmers, mighty successful ones I might add.

Steve Tyree runs his system without a skimmer. I'd say he's been pretty successful. I'm sure you've heard of him.

Opening a window has a bigger impact on my pH than my skimmer does. Meaning, the air coming in contact with the water surface is plenty to control pH.

Ace - Beautiful tank and nice work!

hmmmmmmmm Steve Tyree ..........is Steve Tyree and yes after seting up his sponge refugiums and whatever clever setup he has it probably works

but we want to do thinks very efficient and long term, also not too complicated if possible. Post a link for his skimmerless tank if you please

Young Frankenstein · Jul 12, 2012

Ace25 said:
Best skimmer articles written to date:
Feature Article: The Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Feature Article: Further Studies on Protein Skimmer Performance — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Feature Article: Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water? — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

None of the articles describe skimmer less aquariums, they explain allot about skimmers but not what you are claiming

Young Frankenstein · Jul 12, 2012

Ace25 said:
You are correct, the corals in that tank above are all considered "easy" corals. Here is my other tank that is also run by the same filtration with one difference, the addition of some type of phosphate control. This tank is older and used to be run using a skimmer and GFO/Rox Carbon before I switched a few years ago. There are many people that have nice SPS tanks using scrubbers, most of them can be found on the scubber thread on RC, but for SPS tanks other filtration methods are required (ie. some extra form of phosphate control). Last month I ran out of GFO and let me tank go with "scubber only" and my phosphates went from .05 up to .41 in 30 days simply by not using a secondary method to control phosphates, nitrates were still a solid 0 though.

Closeup of a coral on the frag rack on the right hand side.