Metal Halides Making a Come Back? Don’t call it a come back?

[MONTANTK]

I would definitely try halides. They existed when I first entered the hobby but never had a setup where it made sense.

I wish T5s would make a comeback because they are the best imo

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I still feel like we can provide it. Heavy in heavy, heavy out. The corals still prefer ammonia to nitrate. I still think the ideal environment is heavy feeding, with maybe also the addition of phytoplankton, zooplankton, particulate food but still maintain residual nitrates and phosphates close to 0 and within the right ratio to each other.

Good luck with that.

 

[Battlecorals]

I would argue that some growers never stopped using them as opposed to coming back. But in general I think it’s safe to say halides have been pretty much phased out entirely. Save, those mentioned above and perhaps the curious newcomer that wants to “see for themself”

 

[A. grandis]

I would definitely try halides. They existed when I first entered the hobby but never had a setup where it made sense.

I wish T5s would make a comeback because they are the best imo

There are 2 companies that are still making metal halide fixtures today : Giesemann in Germany, and ReefBrite in US.
The amazing Giesemann Spectra fixture also has T5s besides the SE halides, the ReefBrite comes with XHOs on the sides. So, they still exist.
ATI still makes their amazing Sunpower T5 only fixture as well. If you think they are the best your should just get them.

 

[A. grandis]

I would argue that some growers never stopped using them as opposed to coming back. But in general I think it’s safe to say halides have been pretty much phased out entirely. Save, those mentioned above and perhaps the curious newcomer that wants to “see for themself”

Like some say, and they are right, without actual numbers it all becomes relative and speculation. It is known though that ReefBrite and Aqua Bright Solutions, a brand new halide company, have reported informally that halide gear sales in general have significantly jumped in the last years. Also the production of Radium bulbs is back by demand.

AQUA BRIGHT SOLUTIONS

Supplier of high quality aquarium products

aquabrightsolutions.com

The LED marketing is strong and invest a lot of money and time with sponsorships and videos "educating" the crowd about the "advantages" of LEDs and how much halides are "basically dead". The pressure for the substitution of halides by LEDs have been active for many years. It is amazing how halides are still being sold today with so many obstacles and such low availability of gear. That alone shows how strong the KING of lights is. The only thing we need for the halides to get back strong is availability of fixtures and ballasts! If they decide to invest on all marketing strategies, like LED manufacturers do, they will succeed in heart bit! Quality of light is superior in terms of spectrum, intensity and distribution with the right application. The efficiency of the quality of light is in those factors for the coral's metabolism and vitality of the whole system.

Please post a picture of your Iwsakis over those Acros for us to enjoy, will you?

 

[MONTANTK]

There are 2 companies that are still making metal halide fixtures today : Giesemann in Germany, and ReefBrite in US.
The amazing Giesemann Spectra fixture also has T5s besides the SE halides, the ReefBrite comes with XHOs on the sides. So, they still exist.
ATI still makes their amazing Sunpower T5 only fixture as well. If you think they are the best your should just get them.

I would but don’t have a tank right now. Even if I did, the fixtures would probably be too big unfortunately. I don’t hate LEDs by any means but but I think you get the best natural color and spread with halides/T5s

 

[JNalley]

Like some say, and they are right, without actual numbers it all becomes relative and speculation. It is known though that ReefBrite and Aqua Bright Solutions, a brand new halide company, have reported informally that halide gear sales in general have significantly jumped in the last years. Also the production of Radium bulbs is back by demand.

AQUA BRIGHT SOLUTIONS

Supplier of high quality aquarium products

aquabrightsolutions.com

The LED marketing is strong and invest a lot of money and time with sponsorships and videos "educating" the crowd about the "advantages" of LEDs and how much halides are "basically dead". The pressure for the substitution of halides by LEDs have been active for many years. It is amazing how halides are still being sold today with so many obstacles and such low availability of gear. That alone shows how strong the KING of lights is. The only thing we need for the halides to get back strong is availability of fixtures and ballasts! If they decide to invest on all marketing strategies, like LED manufacturers do, they will succeed in heart bit! Quality of light is superior in terms of spectrum, intensity and distribution with the right application. The efficiency of the quality of light is in those factors for the coral's metabolism and vitality of the whole system.

Please post a picture of your Iwsakis over those Acros for us to enjoy, will you?

Man... I think you have the craziest conspiracy theory that you're working with here... An educational campaign about the benefits of LED is not in any way a concerted effort to undermine Halides. Bringing up the FACT that Halides are on their way out (which is the case from any reasonable perspective) is not a smear campaign against Halides. You are far more vocal about the pitfalls of LED than any LED Manufacturer or Retailer has ever been about the use of Halides and T5s. Most of them tell you flat out that Metal Halides and T5s are what modern LEDs strive to look like. When brought up about power savings, BRS has said specifically, in at least two videos that I have seen, that the power savings are there, but they aren't as great as everyone had initially thought or suspected them to be... somewhere in the area of 10-20% instead of the 70-80% that people were expecting initially.

If I have noticed anything at all, it's the hold out MH+T5 users disparaging LEDs and their users, not the other way around.

 

[jackson6745]

I didn't find this light, it found me lol. A new 72" Giesemann spectra fixture in storage by a local reefer that never got a chance to use it (added reefbrites). I can't post giant colony pics because it's only been 4 months on this particular system, but everything is on its way. My frag system that I will be plumbing in will be LED, but I';m fortunate to have the Spectra these days.

 

[jackson6745]

Man... I think you have the craziest conspiracy theory that you're working with here... An educational campaign about the benefits of LED is not in any way a concerted effort to undermine Halides. Bringing up the FACT that Halides are on their way out (which is the case from any reasonable perspective) is not a smear campaign against Halides. You are far more vocal about the pitfalls of LED than any LED Manufacturer or Retailer has ever been about the use of Halides and T5s. Most of them tell you flat out that Metal Halides and T5s are what modern LEDs strive to look like. When brought up about power savings, BRS has said specifically, in at least two videos that I have seen, that the power savings are there, but they aren't as great as everyone had initially thought or suspected them to be... somewhere in the area of 10-20% instead of the 70-80% that people were expecting initially.

If I have noticed anything at all, it's the hold out MH+T5 users disparaging LEDs and their users, not the other way around.

The problem is the categorization of a halide/t5 user as a hold out. Really nothing to do with using a relic of a reef light to be cool. There is actual function that is unmatched by other lighting. The misinformation on halide and the rhetoric from hobbyists that haven't even used them makes them seem obsolete. Utilized properly, they can be one of the most cost effective ways to light larger areas, grow and color corals amazing, and very cheap to purchase compared to LED equivalent when you consider real world spread. There's many variables to consider and each lighting has its niche. I just hate to see one of the best ways to light reef labeled as a holdout light lol.

 

[A. grandis]

Man... I think you have the craziest conspiracy theory that you're working with here... An educational campaign about the benefits of LED is not in any way a concerted effort to undermine Halides. Bringing up the FACT that Halides are on their way out (which is the case from any reasonable perspective) is not a smear campaign against Halides. You are far more vocal about the pitfalls of LED than any LED Manufacturer or Retailer has ever been about the use of Halides and T5s. Most of them tell you flat out that Metal Halides and T5s are what modern LEDs strive to look like. When brought up about power savings, BRS has said specifically, in at least two videos that I have seen, that the power savings are there, but they aren't as great as everyone had initially thought or suspected them to be... somewhere in the area of 10-20% instead of the 70-80% that people were expecting initially.

If I have noticed anything at all, it's the hold out MH+T5 users disparaging LEDs and their users, not the other way around.

You should refrain from accusing anyone of working on "the craziest conspiracy theory". Specially when facts are what we're talking about. Please do a search and understand the whole thing before coming here with your questions and accusations.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You should refrain from accusing anyone of working on "the craziest conspiracy theory". Specially when facts are what we're talking about. Please do a search and understand the whole thing before coming here with your questions and accusations.

Nah - you post a good bit of tinfoil hat stuff in your quest to save halides

 

[BeanAnimal]

he misinformation on halide and the rhetoric from hobbyists that haven't even used them makes them seem obsolete.

What is making them obsolete is the simple fact that the rest of the world has moved on for various reasons (good and bad) and there is no longer an economy of scale to easily take advantage of. They are now a niche product, not an industrial mainstay and/or surplus.

Is there rhetoric and misinformation, sure. But that is not what is killing MH or T5 it even if it is not helping.

 

[A. grandis]

The problem is the categorization of a halide/t5 user as a hold out. Really nothing to do with using a relic of a reef light to be cool. There is actual function that is unmatched by other lighting. The misinformation on halide and the rhetoric from hobbyists that haven't even used them makes them seem obsolete. Utilized properly, they can be one of the most cost effective ways to light larger areas, grow and color corals amazing, and very cheap to purchase compared to LED equivalent when you consider real world spread. There's many variables to consider and each lighting has its niche. I just hate to see one of the best ways to light reef labeled as a holdout light lol.

Thanks! They don't understand that we are not against them using LEDs. We just want to have the right to use what we choose for the results we are looking for. The defensive attitude of the majority of LED uses is only because they think halide/T5 uses are wrong in choosing their fixtures and they forget the right we all have to choose what we want. Thy tend to ignore the unmatched benefits associated to halides, as you posted.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks! They don't understand that we are not against them using LEDs. We just want to have the right to use what we choose for the results we are looking for

The only thing stopping you is availability, price (based on supply) and eventually regulation. Is the regulation warranted or sensible... it doesn't matter. It is the direction that we are being forced as a global consumer. Reefing has no bearing on that.

 

[A. grandis]

Nah - you post a good bit of tinfoil hat stuff in your quest to save halides

Yeah, the tinfoil you are talking about are possible explanations to why they are so special and why they make difference in the results.
The results themselves aren't tinfoil. The strategies of LED marketing aren't tinfoil either!

 

[BeanAnimal]

There are always hold outs for older technology …. for myriad reasons (I still use vacuum tube amps in my sound system).

I (not that long ago) built two monoblocks using (4) Tung-Sol KT150s per channel.

 

[jackson6745]

Yeah, the tinfoil you are talking about are possible explanations to why they are so special and why they make difference in the results.
The results themselves aren't tinfoil. The strategies of LED marketing aren't tinfoil either!

I hate the way how much of the reef equipment is marketed these days with "influencers". Is what it is, but clearly not the best way to get unbiased user opinions.

 

[A. grandis]

The only thing stopping you is availability, price (based on supply) and eventually regulation. Is the regulation warranted or sensible... it doesn't matter. It is the direction that we are being forced as a global consumer. Reefing has no bearing on that.

"Reefing" is what dictates them to be out of that direction you are talking about. Halides and T5s aren't banned to specialized industries like horticulture and aquarium. So, that is not the case at all in any part of the world. Availability of gear is the main reason why I would agree with you, along with the lack of investment on advertising.
I will take advantage here to ask you 3 questions: do you think the actual qualities of light to be perfectly replaceable bewtween the 3 different types of technologies discussed (T5, MH, LED)?
Do you see significant differences in the results?
Would you agree that we all should have the freedom of choice between them?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah, the tinfoil you are talking about are possible explanations to why they are so special and why they make difference in the results.
The results themselves aren't tinfoil. The strategies of LED marketing aren't tinfoil either!

You can tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night.

The reality is that marketers are going to market what is in supply and profitable and in demand by consumers. The problem is that supply has been removed (globally) and marketers have moved on to what they can supply and profit from. It has nothing to do with viability to grow coral.

 

[JNalley]

The problem is the categorization of a halide/t5 user as a hold out.

There are fewer manufacturers, fewer sellers, fewer people buying them. To the point that people still using them have purchased years and years of bulbs because of scarcity. Hold outs seems like a the correct term, though, I am open to changing the language surrounding that if you have another word that you feel is better suited to the conversation.

Really nothing to do with using a relic of a reef light to be cool. There is actual function that is unmatched by other lighting. The misinformation on halide and the rhetoric from hobbyists that haven't even used them makes them seem obsolete.

The obsolescence has nothing to do with hobbyist rhetoric. See what I said above. The lighting industry as a whole is being pushed towards LEDs, this hobby is subjected to the same market pressures that everyone else is...

Utilized properly, they can be one of the most cost effective ways to light larger areas, grow and color corals amazing, and very cheap to purchase compared to LED equivalent when you consider real world spread.

Let's be ultra-clear here... I have used Halides, and I did so in the early 2000s until about 2010-2011when I shut those tanks down due to moves and downsizing. I came back to a world of LEDs. Halides alone did not create the "spread." T5s created the spread. My 2 55-gallon tanks started as Halide-only tanks, and then those were replaced with Halide + T5 fixtures because I was getting hard shadowing.

There's many variables to consider and each lighting has its niche. I just hate to see one of the best ways to light reef labeled as a holdout light lol.

Sure, as I said, if you want to offer a better term, I am open. I don't disagree that Halides and T5s are the best lighting options from a color/spread perspective. You do trade things off by going with LED, but you also gain things by going with LED. The simple fact is that a Kessil AP9X + 2 LED bars use about 265 watts to light up a 3ft x 3ft 30" deep tank, and to do the same with MH + T5, you're looking at around 350-360 watts. The LEDs will last 11+ years (most cheap LEDs are rated for 50,000 Hours, while more high-end LED Diodes are rated at 100,000). My AI Hydra 26HDs, for instance, are 9 years old and still in use... With T5s, you have to replace bulbs about every 9-12 months, and with Halides, every year or two.

Total cost all in for AP9X + 2 LED bars = $1200
-AP9X = ~$880
-Orphex OR3 = $160 Each

Total initial Cost all in for MH + T5 = $249 (See Link)
running cost over 12 years:
-250W MH Bulb: $39.99 x 6 = $240
-40W Actinic Bulb: $22.95 ea x 4 = $92 x 12 = $1,104
Total cost all in for MH + T5 = $15-1600

And this is before we consider the extra 100+ watts of power the lights are using. T5s will also die quicker when used in applications that want dimming, it's recommended they be replaced every 6-8 months in those cases...

do you think the actual qualities of light to be perfectly replaceable bewtween the 3 different types of technologies discussed (T5, MH, LED)?

No, only a fool would think that were the case.

Do you see significant differences in the results?

Depends on which results you're talking about, but there is a difference in the lights, and those differences translate to different results, and those results are visible...

Would you agree that we all should have the freedom of choice between them?

Yes, and you will, as long as the manufacturers keep producing them. However, most lighting companies are being pressured as a whole to move out of the space. It doesn't matter that Horticulture, Reefing, etc are exempt from the regulatory pressures, the simple fact is that these manufacturers often make more than just reef aquarium lighting in the same manufacturing lines, so they use the same equipment over and over again across all of their avenues of influence. As more of those avenues get pushed to LED because of regulatory pressure, those manufacturing lines are taking up more and more valuable space for SKUs that will make them ore money. As the whole lighting industry moves away from the segment, Reefing will eventually follow, and small Niche companies or companies who are passionate about maintaining reef light culture will be all that remain. It's a simple but sad fact.