Mid cycle

[Mcombest]

So I am about 12 days into a fishless cycle. I'm dosing pure ammonia to 4ppm a day. My nitrates stared showing up around day 5. Nitrites started showing around day 7-8. My ammonia is going to zero daily. However, my nitrates and nitrites are staying off the charts. I did a 40-50% water change 2 days ago. Nitrites went down a little, but nitrates didn't drop at all.
I've not fishless cycled before and my last tank was over 20 years ago. I'm running a marineland 360 canister filter and marineland maxi jet on a 60 gallon tank. Heater is set at 87. I've read that nitrifying bacteria takes longer to establish. Just wasnt sure exactly how much longer. To be honest, I was suprised to see nitrates/nitrites as soon as I did. I also used a product called activate during the first few days, and I have caribe live fiji pink sand. I've attached a picture of the water tests about 12 hours after dosing ammonia.
Just not sure if I should keep dosing ammonia, or if its being overloaded? Obviously want to add some fish soon, but know I have to be patient. Just don't want to be sitting there while cycle stalls if there is something I can do. Thanks for any help. ( and if anyone has better Idea for rock layout, let me know. )

 

[Fishy212]

Hello! Welcome to R2R forums! I am happy to see you know how to take things slow. Now everyone is all about instant gratification and unfortunately that is not how reefing works.

Patience is key

You do not need to keep dosing ammonia. I’ve had great success with bio spira if you want to boost your beneficial bacteria.
I recommend bringing the temperature down to 77-78 range if you intend to keep a reef tank. Are the rocks you introduced into the tank live or dead?

 

[Mcombest]

The temp to 87 is only because i read bacteria grows quicker at higher temps. I will bring it back down slowly the day or two before introducing fish. The rock was just base rock (dead).
I'm afraid if I don't dose SOME ammonia, the bacteria will have no food supply and die. Should the nitrates start dropping in a few days, weeks, ? Just wasn't sure what that time frame was like before worrying about a stall in the cycle.
This will be a FOWLR tank only for some time. I may end up introducing some coral later, but just don't have time or money to invest in doing it the right way now. Baby steps.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[MERKEY]

The temp to 87 is only because i read bacteria grows quicker at higher temps. I will bring it back down slowly the day or two before introducing fish. The rock was just base rock (dead).
I'm afraid if I don't dose SOME ammonia, the bacteria will have no food supply and die. Should the nitrates start dropping in a few days, weeks, ? Just wasn't sure what that time frame was like before worrying about a stall in the cycle.
This will be a FOWLR tank only for some time. I may end up introducing some coral later, but just don't have time or money to invest in doing it the right way now. Baby steps.

Thank you for the reply.

You're cycled and just need to boost the bac. As long as you process 2ppm a day you're cycled.

Dont follow nitrites anymore and do a large water change to kick some of the nitrates out.

Stop dosing so much ammonia. Its causing the spike in nitrate as your bac is processing it.

After the large water change add some benificial bottle bac like special blend or even a starter bac like dr Tim's.

You are cycled and you just gotta stop over feeding with ammonia. You can now just add some fish food every few days and you're all good.

I could be all wrong but

@brandon429 has a lot of threads on cycling

 

[Fishy212]

Agree with MERKEY.
Do a larger water change and wait for the levels to stabilize while adding a few pellets or flakes and let the bacteria feed off of that.

I would wait a little bit longer but I know you are excited to get it going. It’s very Exciting !!!! Take it slow with adding fish as well. You have to give your system enough time to develop the biological filtration that comes with the bio load of adding livestock. Nothing in this hobby comes fast, cheap or easy. Soak it in and learn from everyone here on R2R. Don’t be afraid to ask if you do not know or want clarification. Good luck and happy reefing

 

[brandon429]

Team study this thread start to finish let me know your take:

-how much stuff did he put in on day one

-how much variation can one get out of a single dose of bio spira/meaning is that 1000x different species of bac, all the tank will ever need (after all he did a full reef in one day, that requires balance, right>) OR is the real truth that we need to only process ammonia, and the other two catch up just fine on their own

-we are buying bottle bac designed to work in one day, this breaks every known rule in reefing agreed, but why are we waiting X amount of arbitrary days to begin? Is it because nitrite and nitrate must be present to deem a tank ready for bioload?

did he test for nitrite there


when are rules allowed to be pressed? at what point in the late nineties did all the reef refs allow for pico reefs, heck they'd drum you out of town for running a 5 gallon reef much less a tiny one.

Bio-spira works great

Nice. What happened to the flame angel and the original clown? I sold all 3. The flame was picking at corals and my wife really wanted B&W B&W clowns. I actually just last night sold the kole tang as well. I added a small hippo tang and it tried to kill it so I took out the kole. I also have 2...

www.reef2reef.com

do you all agree based on Ike's thread, rules are changing for reef cycles and allowed start dates are changing?
B

 

[brandon429]

also effective to ponder:

MACNA and marine conventions have a start date---> how are 500 tanks always set up, ready, and never late (none waiting 30 days with 3 param tests in hand, awaiting start permission)

for comparison, try finding cycles in reef forums that are complete and agreed complete on a consistent time scale

we just had one taking 90 days a few days ago, they could not get three fold test kits to agree on a start date, yet they used multiple strains of one-day bac

-what parameters we measure in the cycle has to change (nitrite is never ready day one, or day ten etc yet people are starting anyway...nitrite is neutral despite online claims) and what we deem an acceptable start date in forums will have to change, in order to align with marine conventions running the last two decades. We can find full running tanks that can't detect nitrate, so why is it required for cycling proof-ammonia control is all that matters, this tank above can demo ammonia control

I wanted to spurn thought over ways that quick starts are acceptable, not just rule breaking. MACNA is using some formula to regulate start dates and cycles>they're all using science we're allowed to use as well so its worth a ponder

 

[BeejReef]

nitrate will test crazy crazy high if u have any nitrite at all. Don't let nitrate numbers freak u out til nitrite is gone.

 

[Mcombest]

So I'm not worried about the nitrates necessarily. I did about an 80% water change last night. My nitrites are still crazy high. I added api quick start, that did nothing. My ammonia is still 0, but I dont understand why my nitrites wont go down. Cant introduce fish with them.

 

[brandon429]

That’s not the case at all, we linked above a multi fish start.

Your issue is using non digital test kits. One param crossreads as another, but doesn’t cross with ammonia.

 

[jayleah]

So I'm not worried about the nitrates necessarily. I did about an 80% water change last night. My nitrites are still crazy high. I added api quick start, that did nothing. My ammonia is still 0, but I dont understand why my nitrites wont go down. Cant introduce fish with them.

What ended up happening? I'm in the same boat. According to people my tank is "cycled" but my nitrites are still off the chart and that's after I did a 35% water change.

 

[brandon429]

Jay

see this thread regarding nitrites let me know if that’s a lot of starts with nitrite, showing it doesn’t matter

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

we discuss in there how it came to be we were told nitrite does matter


several examples where it doesn’t


we show if your tank has added a known source of bac, and if ammonia can be moved down overnite from a starting higher reading, you are as cycled as a Reefstock convention.