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I think the theory was right, maybe they were expecting someone to buy them out
One person cancels it is 1,000.00. If 10, it is 10,000. 20? You can do the math... I'm not buying the "we didn't expect this much demand" line either. Anyone with half a brain knows the hobby has been anticipating the automated product be it reagent based, disc, or probe. Heck, they could have sat back, ate popcorn, and read all of the trident threads about their demand issues.
They should never have opened orders and they shouldn't have requested money up front if they couldn't fulfill them. That is a executive management decision miscue (and I'm not talking about pool) which very well could have cost them the company. Just my opinion.
Trident is a product with an already established user base of Apex owners. It's pretty easy for Neptune to estimate what percentage of thier user base will buy a Trident. Yet somehow they still have the same issue as MS of not being able to supply customers.
I don't think so. If Neptune did that they maybe they would have delayed the launch a bit while banking Tridents to handle the demand. They didn't. What sets them apart at the moment is that they stepped up, explained what the hold up is, and are letting the rat work its way through the snakes body while working through their last mile calibration and inspection.
Mindstream is still working on how to manufacture a disc post launch to meet demand while also communication honestly to the buyers they already took money from. About the only thing they have in common is demand. I'm going out on a limb here and say GHL is watching both and probably working a few things out to not be in a similar position.
LOL Neptune used the first few months figuring out how to ship bottles of reagent that didn't leak everywhere. That is not rocket science! The first solution was a doozy. Put them in a bag so they leak into the bag and not onto other peoples FedEx boxes. ;Meh
So what is the real reason for the holdup with the Trident? I am not really following it. All I see is people saying they cannot get one. I checked at Marine Depot, none in stock and no reagents in stock. I looked at BRS and no Trident but you can get the reagents.
GHL is probably going to run into the same problem. Every company is trying to get theirs out to market as fast as possible. This makes them take risks. Sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don't!
I’m now 11 weeks waiting. Do I think it’s a scam? no.
Mindstream will deliver in their due time. It only took them 7 years to launch product lol
They are under staffed under funded etc. they will catch up. Give them time.
Maybe I’m overly not concerned because I put it on my AMEX and they are great with this type of thing but I know a couple people who have received theirs and I spoke directly with the guys at Macna. They are definitely overwhelmed but they had sold about 5k units when I talked to them. That’s a 2 million dollar a year business on subscription alone plus the 4-5 million they did in sales after some discounting. Not a huge company but should be enough to get them through their current phase. If not that’s enough to get another larger company interested in their product. I run a small business of my own and things always take 4-5x longer then you hope lolThey have not returned emails or phone calls from me (including today) for the past two weeks. I hope you are right...
Per Neptune - and the video is out there should you want to watch it, which I don't see a reason why you would, is that it isn't say similar to ordering 1,000 more pumps from the manufacture. Here the issue is the last mile before final shipment. They do the final calibration, tests, or checks at the office before sending them to retailers. The hold up is people through put and honestly may not make sense to throw bodies at the issue since there is lag time to bring people and quality up to speed. At least that is my understanding but could be wrong.
Well that is interesting because that is the same issue that Mindstream is having.
They already tried throwing more people at the disk making issue and found out that the new people could not properly do the calibration part of it consistently. They also made assembly mistakes and overall just created a huge QC issue for them with bad disks. They could have kept on going and in the end they would have probably had enough trained people making fewer and fewer mistakes but they instead opted for robotic manufacturing so that they every customer would get a perfect disk and they could ramp up their production quantities far beyond what would be needed for today or even for the next two years.
I don't know. One is last mile the other is manufacturing a disc. I would have assumed (i'm incorrect here) that they would have done this from the get go for obvious reasons (monthly subscription = steady supply of discs).
But - this could be part of the equation on how to best use the money you have. Manually build now - automate or out source later. I really don't know and not my call. I can see how opening up the books and then seeing the demand running into an issue here.
danged if you do, danged if you don't.
Money is always an issue for a startup. You have to use it wisely to get enough product out the door before you can start to look at other issues.
I am not sure why people harp on the MS subscription model so much. Your basically on a subscription plan with the Trident. Disks or Reagents it does not matter, there is no third party source for either, so your going to have to buy X amount of product from the respective companies every year.
Same reason why people harp on reagent use
It is a different price and test sample point. The hobbyist is left to choose. If a MS disc runs you 35/year - 12 months in a year so roughly $420. Trident is $100 for a 6 month supply - 12 months is $200. This will net you a years worth of minimum tests. Didn't include tax on either or any other discounts that may or may not happen such as whatever holiday or door busters because the world is ending.
Now we both know the Trident tests three things vs the trident testing more. Is that important? Does that increase or decrease the cost or return on investment? That again depends on the hobbyist. What would matter or at least what I think they have in common is saving the hobbyist time by test automation. So if you test all the things either unit does all one has to do is put a price on that and decide.
Having already a Apex it made no sense to me financially to buy a MS. So there is that. I'll also say as being a data horder and one who has cut the cord only to go back recently monthly subscriptions add up. Personal choice I would rather pay up front a whole year of that subscription or reagent use so I see it and it isn't sapping my account. This doesn't apply to all people because we are all different in our money. Some of you are really good at it.
So Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, and all these other subscriptions that nickel and dime you with low costs add up (just an example). Personally I don't see it working out for them in the long term because MS doesn't offer any middle ground in that monthly offering. Less tests or visible data as one example. No discounts for military, students, nurses, or just cool people (had to cover all bases, right?). No 3, 6, 9, or 12 month packages. All or nothing.
So that is why I harp on the product not to mention you are still paying upfront. If I didn't have an Apex then my two choices would be Apex or GHL or none. Just an honest answer as to why. And also I know you know I'm just busting your chops on the reagents. You are the one person I'm expecting some information on how the MS works once you get it installed.
I'm not sure if I'm misreading what you typed but MS does have a 12 month package instead of monthly and it is cheaper that way. $40 monthly or $420 for a year.Same reason why people harp on reagent use
It is a different price and test sample point. The hobbyist is left to choose. If a MS disc runs you 35/year - 12 months in a year so roughly $420. Trident is $100 for a 6 month supply - 12 months is $200. This will net you a years worth of minimum tests. Didn't include tax on either or any other discounts that may or may not happen such as whatever holiday or door busters because the world is ending.
Now we both know the Trident tests three things vs the trident testing more. Is that important? Does that increase or decrease the cost or return on investment? That again depends on the hobbyist. What would matter or at least what I think they have in common is saving the hobbyist time by test automation. So if you test all the things either unit does all one has to do is put a price on that and decide.
Having already a Apex it made no sense to me financially to buy a MS. So there is that. I'll also say as being a data horder and one who has cut the cord only to go back recently monthly subscriptions add up. Personal choice I would rather pay up front a whole year of that subscription or reagent use so I see it and it isn't sapping my account. This doesn't apply to all people because we are all different in our money. Some of you are really good at it.
So Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, and all these other subscriptions that nickel and dime you with low costs add up (just an example). Personally I don't see it working out for them in the long term because MS doesn't offer any middle ground in that monthly offering. Less tests or visible data as one example. No discounts for military, students, nurses, or just cool people (had to cover all bases, right?). No 3, 6, 9, or 12 month packages. All or nothing.
So that is why I harp on the product not to mention you are still paying upfront. If I didn't have an Apex then my two choices would be Apex or GHL or none. Just an honest answer as to why. And also I know you know I'm just busting your chops on the reagents. You are the one person I'm expecting some information on how the MS works once you get it installed.
At the end of the day for me it's about all these test and also about the ability to have real time numbers and being able to see cause and effect right in front of me. So those 96 tests a day are worth the extra money versus four.
As for me posting data when I get mine. I am surely going to be doing that as soon as I get a month to play with it and gather enough data to make a meaningful monthly graph.
I'm not sure if I'm misreading what you typed but MS does have a 12 month package instead of monthly and it is cheaper that way. $40 monthly or $420 for a year.
That's what I'm saying. They do, paying by the month is $40 but if you buy the 12 month subscription it's $420.I don't know if they do or don't - as you can see I just did 12 x 35. If it is cheaper, and one would expect that they do something like that, then great. I wasn't trying to break it down by cost per test...