Missing fish, low ALK & PH.

[PieMan2k]

I have a 20g JBJ cube AIO and decided to go out of town for New Years. I did a water test before I left and everything was close to NSW. I just got home and noticed my Fairy wrasse is gone. I cant find any trace of them, Im thinking the hermits may have eaten them before I got home. As unfortunate as that is I have just lost 7 or 8 corals this weekend, and the only thing I can see out of balance is ALK and PH. Alk is 2 to 5 dKH and PH is 7.8, which is EXTREMLY low. I dont know what could have caused this, I use RODI water and top off with RODI water. Could a fish dying have caused this or is there a much bigger problem at hand?

EDIT: such a large swing on the ALK because the Red Sea Test kit doesnt show very well when the titration begins vs when the solution is saturated enough to start testing.

 

[MnFish1]

I have a 20g JBJ cube AIO and decided to go out of town for New Years. I did a water test before I left and everything was close to NSW. I just got home and noticed my Fairy wrasse is gone. I cant find any trace of them, Im thinking the hermits may have eaten them before I got home. As unfortunate as that is I have just lost 7 or 8 corals this weekend, and the only thing I can see out of balance is ALK and PH. Alk is 2 to 5 dKH and PH is 7.8, which is EXTREMLY low. I dont know what could have caused this, I use RODI water and top off with RODI water. Could a fish dying have caused this or is there a much bigger problem at hand?

EDIT: such a large swing on the ALK because the Red Sea Test kit doesnt show very well when the titration begins vs when the solution is saturated enough to start testing.

1. Sorry about this.
2. Did you check ammonia (with the assumed dead fish) - though at that pH - likely is not causing a huge problem.
3. There is something incorrect with your measurements - The relationship between alkalinity, pH and Co2 is a mathematical equation as @arking_mark will tell you - Thus - unless you mis-dosed and acid, etc - OR if there is a huge amount of carbon dioxide in your house, there is no way your alkalinity measurements are correct.

To now answer your question - yes - a fish dying in a small tank can cause a type of 'cascade' - especially in a new tank. Such that fish dies - chemicals change - something else dies - chemicals change etc etc etc.

I would also consider - any cleaners/toxins, etc - through I usually dont believe in those (unless you used them right before you left). Another thing - was there a power outage - causing low O2 (we don't measure this) - and death. We had a power outage here for 4 hours in the middle of the night - had I not had a controller connected to my phone - I would not have known. Instead I spent 4 hours pouring 2 quart picthures into and out of my tank periodically - to maintain oxygenation (we have a generator now).

PS again sorry - I would search for any dead 'stuff' - and remove it. If the corals smell - remove them. Do a water change (a big one) - put carbon (activated) - in. To prevent further damage. A pic of your tank would be nice. But - not a requirement.

Hope this helps

 

[PieMan2k]

1. Sorry about this.
2. Did you check ammonia (with the assumed dead fish) - though at that pH - likely is not causing a huge problem.
3. There is something incorrect with your measurements - The relationship between alkalinity, pH and Co2 is a mathematical equation as @arking_mark will tell you - Thus - unless you mis-dosed and acid, etc - OR if there is a huge amount of carbon dioxide in your house, there is no way your alkalinity measurements are correct.

To now answer your question - yes - a fish dying in a small tank can cause a type of 'cascade' - especially in a new tank. Such that fish dies - chemicals change - something else dies - chemicals change etc etc etc.

I would also consider - any cleaners/toxins, etc - through I usually dont believe in those (unless you used them right before you left). Another thing - was there a power outage - causing low O2 (we don't measure this) - and death. We had a power outage here for 4 hours in the middle of the night - had I not had a controller connected to my phone - I would not have known. Instead I spent 4 hours pouring 2 quart picthures into and out of my tank periodically - to maintain oxygenation (we have a generator now).

PS again sorry - I would search for any dead 'stuff' - and remove it. If the corals smell - remove them. Do a water change (a big one) - put carbon (activated) - in. To prevent further damage. A pic of your tank would be nice. But - not a requirement.

Hope this helps

I have checked ammonia and it is at 0 which is why I presumed the hermits got the fish, no decaying flesh.

As far as contaminates the only aerosol that is used in my room is my GF's perfume which she applies next to the tank in the bathroom. I attached a picture of the tank and the red sea testing card. At most I added 5 drops of titrant and 3 drops after the initial color turned which is where I get the 3 to 5 dKH from. as for the mis dosing, I dont dose in he tank at all, I am waiting for things to settle down after the holiday season to put in an order for hanna checkers and a dosing system. However I might place an order for an ALK checker tonight. For the corals that are dying and will not make it through the night it appears as if they have been melted, flesh is patchy, and sloughing off if the skeleton, almost appearing as an alk burn.
I did check the water from the tap with the test kit and got the same reading for alkalinity however accurate that may be. I know the results may be different but it find it strange that the same amount of titrant was used on the tank water and water from the tap. I am making water now, once its done I will check the levels after adding salt

When I top off I water I dont have an ATO and the alinity has increased from .025 to .026 over the weekend but I dont think that would cause a huge die off event.

 

[MnFish1]

something in the measurements is not correct - and the same amount of ammonia/nitrogen would be produced whether the hermit crab ate it or something else - but it goes against it.

As I said - no one was there - so its hard to say -but - likely a problem with one thing that caused multiple other problems. or a power failure, etc etc

 

[PieMan2k]

Ordered a hanna checker, new salt, and buffer solution in case. will test when it gets here and do another water change. No new progress today, the stuff that was dying is dead and the others that were healthy are still happy.

 

[MnFish1]

Ordered a hanna checker, new salt, and buffer solution in case. will test when it gets here and do another water change. No new progress today, the stuff that was dying is dead and the others that were healthy are still happy.

What 'buffer'?

 

[PieMan2k]

What 'buffer'?

concentrated dissolved carbonates to raise the dKH slowly if it is a problem with my water and not something that has been added to the tank. If the test truly says 3-5 dKH I need to have something to raise that in the fresh salt water before adding it to the tank. Eventually I can set it up on a doser but for now hand dosing IF that is required, i may not even need the buffer

I also just realized I have a glass lid on the tank which might not allow for enough oxygenation from surface agitation so I removed it. I did a 5 gal water change this morning and doing another one tonight just to hopefully get levels back to normal.

 

[MnFish1]

concentrated dissolved carbonates to raise the dKH slowly if it is a problem with my water and not something that has been added to the tank. If the test truly says 3-5 dKH I need to have something to raise that in the fresh salt water before adding it to the tank. Eventually I can set it up on a doser but for now hand dosing IF that is required, i may not even need the buffer

I also just realized I have a glass lid on the tank which might not allow for enough oxygenation from surface agitation so I removed it. I did a 5 gal water change this morning and doing another one tonight just to hopefully get levels back to normal.

I do not think - without dissolving your rocks - that you can have an alkalinity between 3 and 5. It is a test error. In case -I would do a water change - or multiple water changes.

 

[MnFish1]

I have checked ammonia and it is at 0 which is why I presumed the hermits got the fish, no decaying flesh.

As far as contaminates the only aerosol that is used in my room is my GF's perfume which she applies next to the tank in the bathroom. I attached a picture of the tank and the red sea testing card. At most I added 5 drops of titrant and 3 drops after the initial color turned which is where I get the 3 to 5 dKH from. as for the mis dosing, I dont dose in he tank at all, I am waiting for things to settle down after the holiday season to put in an order for hanna checkers and a dosing system. However I might place an order for an ALK checker tonight. For the corals that are dying and will not make it through the night it appears as if they have been melted, flesh is patchy, and sloughing off if the skeleton, almost appearing as an alk burn.
I did check the water from the tap with the test kit and got the same reading for alkalinity however accurate that may be. I know the results may be different but it find it strange that the same amount of titrant was used on the tank water and water from the tap. I am making water now, once its done I will check the levels after adding salt

When I top off I water I dont have an ATO and the alinity has increased from .025 to .026 over the weekend but I dont think that would cause a huge die off event.

I'm not totally aware of this test - you do not add drops to most tests - until they show a difference - you add the drops until they show the color on the card (completely)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A dead fish does not lower alk noticeably, and a reading of 2-3 dKH is a cause for looking into errors in measurement, not ways to raise alkalinity.

Try your kit on some new salt water.

 

[PieMan2k]

I do not think - without dissolving your rocks - that you can have an alkalinity between 3 and 5. It is a test error. In case -I would do a water change - or multiple water changes.

A dead fish does not lower alk noticeably, and a reading of 2-3 dKH is a cause for looking into errors in measurement, not ways to raise alkalinity.

Try your kit on some new salt water.

I have done a 70% water change over the course of the last 36 hours and used all of my salt I have available. I ordered a tub of Red Sea pro which should be here on Saturday. I understand the testing error, it can happen with old kits, it is within expiration date but I have never been a fan of that test; hence why I ordered the Hanna checker.

The buffer solution is in case it is something with the tap water here or salt mix. Incase any of those are out of line the buffer will allow me to slowly raise the alk levels as I cannot control the water provided more than conditioning it. I was using seachem boxed salt but have switched back to RSCP because I trust that much more.

I ran the test 3 times once on the tank, once on the first water change, and once on the second. All had the exact same color change. Im beginning to think the kit is bad hence new checker

 

[305]

Ph drops when stuff dies.. ph and alk go hand in hand..
Alk and ph(unless out of normal range) wont kill fish
Ammonia will

 

[MnFish1]

I have done a 70% water change over the course of the last 36 hours and used all of my salt I have available. I ordered a tub of Red Sea pro which should be here on Saturday. I understand the testing error, it can happen with old kits, it is within expiration date but I have never been a fan of that test; hence why I ordered the Hanna checker.

The buffer solution is in case it is something with the tap water here or salt mix. Incase any of those are out of line the buffer will allow me to slowly raise the alk levels as I cannot control the water provided more than conditioning it. I was using seachem boxed salt but have switched back to RSCP because I trust that much more.

I ran the test 3 times once on the tank, once on the first water change, and once on the second. All had the exact same color change. Im beginning to think the kit is bad hence new checker

The idea I would have is to check your alkalinity with another testing method. It doesnt have to be an expiration - you can also be doing the actual test 'wrong' or incorrectly. Thats why I mentioned that the explanation for why the variability in alkalinity from 2-5 doesn't make sense.?

 

[PieMan2k]

The idea I would have is to check your alkalinity with another testing method. It doesnt have to be an expiration - you can also be doing the actual test 'wrong' or incorrectly. Thats why I mentioned that the explanation for why the variability in alkalinity from 2-5 doesn't make sense.?

The test says to add drops until the water shows blue. Then continue to add drops until it turns green. If it turns yellow you have overdosed. the test never turned green and went straight from blue to yellow after 5 drops from start to finish. the test had a hint of blue at 2 drops; hence the 3 to 5 drops for the color to turn. I cant get it higher than 5 drops which is why i expect a problem with the kit as each drop coordinates with 1 dKH

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's the problem with an imprecise kit like this.

Ignore the hint of color stage, and also try the kit on some new salt water.

 

[MnFish1]

The test says to add drops until the water shows blue. Then continue to add drops until it turns green. If it turns yellow you have overdosed. the test never turned green and went straight from blue to yellow after 5 drops from start to finish. the test had a hint of blue at 2 drops; hence the 3 to 5 drops for the color to turn. I cant get it higher than 5 drops which is why i expect a problem with the kit as each drop coordinates with 1 dKH

Which test are you using?

I assume the RedSea Test.

1. First you count all of the drops so it would be 5.
2. Agree your kit might be bad