Mixing all trace additives?

[kimros1986]

I've been thinking of making a mix of all trace additives to dose through my dosing pump.

The reason is that I dose 4,5 litres of kalkwasser per day (and around 20 ml of ati essentials) and keep a refugium with chaeto, and no systematic water change schedule. I do monthly icp and most of my trace elements are low.

I've calculated that I lose around 0,1 ml of trace 1 and 2 per day, and around 0, 4 ml of trace 3 per day. Since these are quite low volumes for a dosing pump to handle, I'm also planning to dilute them in rodi, for example one part trace 1, one part trace 2, 4 parts trace 3 and 14 parts rodi to make a solution that I can dose 2 ml a day from. 1:1:4:14.

But I have a few questions that I haven't been able to find a simple answer to.

1. Can you mix all trace mixes together? I have fauna marin trace 1-3, and I know you can add trace 1 and 2 together, but what about 3? Are they separated only due to the major balling elements (mg, ca, carbonate...) or due to the content in the other trace mixes?

2. I read that some of these trace elements can oxidise and lose potency when stirr-diluted in rodi (?), but if you mix without stirring like a mad man, could that work?

Any info would be much appreciated!

 

[Doctorgori]

if you could just mix them, why wouldn’t the manufacturer just sell you a single bottle? I’m pretty sure it’s ok with some stuff and not with others, but which?

 

[kimros1986]

if you could just mix them, why wouldn’t the manufacturer just sell you a single bottle? I’m pretty sure it’s ok with some stuff and not with others, but which?

Not sure, but trace 1 and 2 is possible to mix. Not sure about trace 3. Hence my question

 

[Spieg]

You might look into ESV 2-part. It includes trace elements. Not sure how you would work that with Kalkwasser though.

 

[Doctorgori]

apologies for making it sound like a obvious answer, …I get your dilemma but is it definitive for all of the trace elements that you can’t dilute?
BTW I “might” try Kalkwasser with All for Reef to address the trace issue

 

[kimros1986]

You might look into ESV 2-part. It includes trace elements. Not sure how you would work that with Kalkwasser though.

Well, that's sort of the whole dilemma. I do use two part (ati essentials) with trace elements, but I also dose 4,5 liters of kalkwasser each day which adds up to about 2/3 of total carbonate/calcium consumption. But with this kalkwasser dosing I also miss out on 2/3 of trace element (including magnesium) dosing, since only 1/3 of the consumption is covered by 2 part balling. Add chaeto to the mix as well and I have a real shortage of heavy metal traces.

This is why I would like to do support dosing of all minor trace elements, but since it such low volumes (concentrated trace mix) I would like to dilute it, also if I could use one dosing pump for all that's more preferable than using two

 

[Duncan62]

Not sure, but trace 1 and 2 is possible to mix. Not sure about trace 3. Hence my question

I tried it and the water clouded. I was afraid to use it. It could be fine but I didn't want to chance it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is not inherently possible to mix all trace element forms.

I do not know what forms of what elements are in all additives, but some may react with one another or precipitate out as insoluble solids. That is, as noted, the reason some are solid as multiple solutions.

I would also be careful about mixing them into kalkwasser where they may be insoluble.

Some will oxidize (e.g., ferrous iron) when diluted and I'm not sure strong mixing is needed.

 

[kimros1986]

It is not inherently possible to mix all trace element forms.

I do not know what forms of what elements are in all additives, but some may react with one another or precipitate out as insoluble solids. That is, as noted, the reason some are solid as multiple solutions.

I would also be careful about mixing them into kalkwasser where they may be insoluble.

Some will oxidize (e.g., ferrous iron) when diluted and I'm not sure strong mixing is needed.

OK thanks for the reply!

Come to think about it.... Since these trace additives are supposed to be added to the fauna marin balling light recipe, which basically means "diluting" the trace additives in the balling mixes (rodi + major elements), the mixing part should be no problem? Otherwise their own recipe should eliminate the effect from their own products.

I have no plan on mixing them with kalkwasser. I just want to compensate whatever trace elements concentration I'm losing with kalkwasser dosing, and the fewer dosing pumps I need the better.

When I have your attention though, i have another question concerning precipitation... I've used a few brands over the years to mix my own balling ("plus"). The part with heavy metals (also normally together with calcium and or magnesium) have always turned brownish on the bottom. Is this oxidised/precipitated heavy metals? Does that mean that it has already lost its "potency" of some of the heavy metals in the mix?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK thanks for the reply!

Come to think about it.... Since these trace additives are supposed to be added to the fauna marin balling light recipe, which basically means "diluting" the trace additives in the balling mixes (rodi + major elements), the mixing part should be no problem? Otherwise their own recipe should eliminate the effect from their own products.

I have no plan on mixing them with kalkwasser. I just want to compensate whatever trace elements concentration I'm losing with kalkwasser dosing, and the fewer dosing pumps I need the better.

When I have your attention though, i have another question concerning precipitation... I've used a few brands over the years to mix my own balling ("plus"). The part with heavy metals (also normally together with calcium and or magnesium) have always turned brownish on the bottom. Is this oxidised/precipitated heavy metals? Does that mean that it has already lost its "potency" of some of the heavy metals in the mix?

Two parts have to be carefully designed to determine what can go where, and that is the entire reason why these additives are 2 or 3 parts and not 1.

Brownish does sound like heavy metal oxidation and/or precipitation. Ferrous iron will oxidize to less soluble ferric iron and can precipitate as ferric hydroxide or oxide.

 

[Spieg]

Well, that's sort of the whole dilemma. I do use two part (ati essentials) with trace elements, but I also dose 4,5 liters of kalkwasser each day which adds up to about 2/3 of total carbonate/calcium consumption. But with this kalkwasser dosing I also miss out on 2/3 of trace element (including magnesium) dosing, since only 1/3 of the consumption is covered by 2 part balling. Add chaeto to the mix as well and I have a real shortage of heavy metal traces.

This is why I would like to do support dosing of all minor trace elements, but since it such low volumes (concentrated trace mix) I would like to dilute it, also if I could use one dosing pump for all that's more preferable than using two

This is the main reason I stopped using Kalk some 10 years ago. My pH stays at 8.2-8.4 so I'm not really concerned with that aspect. 2-part with trace elements is just easier to manage with my 6 month water change schedule.

 

[kimros1986]

This is the main reason I stopped using Kalk some 10 years ago. My pH stays at 8.2-8.4 so I'm not really concerned with that aspect. 2-part with trace elements is just easier to manage with my 6 month water change schedule.

My pH barely hits 8 without boosting it. New air tight apartment and sizeable family. Need to ditch them or boost pH