My Green Slimer went from this...... To this..... PICS--Acro Help Please

[JDK]

I wouldn't get so caught up with those Borneman articles. It's simple, you have to find a balance between your lighting, feeding & export. It's like a three legged table......if one is not right, the table is tilted...... your corals & algae will show you. Unfortunately, LED's make this more difficult because people are still learning to use them correctly & they aren't full spectrum.

Good analogy I agree. The export "leg" of my table was huge. So was my light "leg". I kept upgrading my export ability and but never increased the size of the third leg (feeding/import). I had the idea that pristine water conditions was the goal in my head. All Bornemans article did was show me why reef people think they need this and what it really means. I have been feeding lots with new fish and my nitrates/phosphates have not risen so I think I am on my way to that balance hopefully.

I wouldn't do more than add a few fish & raise or lower the intensity of the lights........... be patient and watch the tank. Changes will take many weeks not days. Focus on only those two variables.

That is the plan. Only thing I threw into the mix was I put some amino/trace (very little) in the tank cause I am gonna skip the water change this weekend. Other than that those two variables are the only things I am changing.

I mentioned cutting a frag of your slimer & putting it in a spot where other acros are doing good. It will give you some signs about your lighting.

That is a really good idea it would be a good indicator of lighting. I am just worried that if the slimer is really stressed that cutting it would do more damage and possibly harm it more? Is this a valid concern?

 

[JDK]

Update:

Coralline bleaching on the rocks has completely reversed and the purple patches are about 95% colored solid again with no white centers. This most likely was light related. I have also noticed a real coralline growth spurt the past week. It is popping up on the glass everywhere. I also just noticed I have a fully purple nerite snail. His shell is completely covered.

 

[Onedesign1]

good to hear on the update. I wouldn't worry about cutting a piece off the slimer. Often times we save corals by fragging them. I can report that I have had a tri-color valida for 2 years....was the basis of my LED experiments. I found with too much white light (14g cube) it lost all its color but didn't die. When I shifted to more blues like yours I got the purple tips back but the green never got vibrant again. I stuck it in my 120g after a year and while it grew it never got its original color back. a month ago I got tired of it and broke it off the rock and figured I'd stick it in my 57g frag tank. I'm happy to report that when i broke it off the rock it left basically a base cut in the 120g and that base is now growing into a very vibrant green and looks about to sprout some branches. By the same token the main piece in my 57g I laid on a rock base up and that too is now coloring back up with a hint of the purple and about to pop some branches. Point is fragging is sometimes good.

By the way...I did not intend to imply anything about your tank being small....the problem with written vs spoken word...I am quite fond of small tanks. only reason I still don't have my cubes is I just had too many tanks on hand and planned. The 14g was for testing LEDs and once I was happy with spectrum and growing corals I sold it....was a year of tweaking colors and power. I just sold off my 29g cube 4 months after 4 years because I set up a rimless 57g. So now I have a 120g and a 57g and no cubes. But the wife wanted her own tank for seahorses and I got her a little eheim which I love but she takes care of Again nothing was intended by that comment other than I feel you are tweaking alot of things at once.

Again, great to hear this latest update!

 

[JDK]

I'm happy to report that when i broke it off the rock it left basically a base cut in the 120g and that base is now growing into a very vibrant green and looks about to sprout some branches.

And the 120 with the rebirth of vibrant green is an LED lit tank correct? Are all your tanks lit with LED?

Again nothing was intended by that comment other than I feel you are tweaking alot of things at once.

No worries. The only things I am changing are fish/nutrient import and light intensity. One is going up the other is going down. I will only slowly raise the lights once I see some definitive positive results in zoox growth/coloring. Every thing else will remain exactly the same. I have been running the same equipment and routines for months. However I will probably skip the water change this weekend which I have done in the past when I got too busy. I change out 15% every week with a few exceptions.

 

[JDK]

Update:

My nitrates are over 1 for the first time in months. They usually were around .2. So the increased import of nutrients over the past 2 weeks is having an effect. I will probably cut back the feedings to alternating between once a day and twice a day trying to stay consistent with the same amounts. Trying to find the happy balance of how much I can import and export at the same time. Once I am feeding and nitrates are not rising I would guess that would mean I am exporting everything that goes in before it can break down. I will not change foods during this time. I have only used Thera-a pellets and frozen Mysis since the beginning of the tank.

I am also seeing green algae in spots I never knew was there. It emerged from underneath a mushroom. It must have been there all the time and I just never saw it cause the mushroom was covering it.

Definately noticing the stalks of the palys stretching for light. Mushrooms are also spreading out more like they are looking for light.

Here is the start of the Blue Mille progression photos- Next week I will post the Slimer and Mille together with new pics of both.
If you look close in the second picture it looks like a few polyps trying to poke out from the coral. I have not seen this in months although it could have been happening when I was not looking. For about the past two months the polyps have been fully retracted every time I have looked.

Blue Mille
6/21/12

6/28/12

 

[Onedesign1]

correct nothing but LEDs here

 

[JDK]

correct nothing but LEDs here

So do you think the blues in the LED help with the green coloration? I have always run mine even across the board but most of the real nice AI LED tanks I see are a little heavy on the blue/royal blue side with the whites lower.

 

[Onedesign1]

So do you think the blues in the LED help with the green coloration? I have always run mine even across the board but most of the real nice AI LED tanks I see are a little heavy on the blue/royal blue side with the whites lower.

No doubt it helps with all coloration. I build my own stuff and do quite a bit of work for others and have weighted 2-1 Royal Blue to whites, plus I run some greens and reds. Then I run the whites at 50% of the blues. Now that really only means something if you're talking drive current and i won;t get into that here but yes..too much white I have found causes alot of problems....at least in my tanks. For me I don't mind at all because I prefer a more blue anyhow. I believe this could be overcome with an extremely long acclimation period but then what happens when you buy a new coral? So I have a standard setup I use for my stuff and anybody I build for.

Here are some shots which I need to update of my 120g...I posted these in December and included some growth shots. The growth has continued and I will seek to get updated shots this weekend.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/photography-forum/68615-my-120g-3.html

 

[tangs are awsome]

your lighting might be ok

Your lighting might be ok. I found that when I used so many different products from different manufacturers it created an adverse affect on my corals. Try only using products specifically from only one maker. Different products have chemical reactions which can lead to big problems. Also why not use regular sea water. If ocean water is available use it. what ever you are mixing to make water could be contaminated. A deionizer is needed on your revers osmosis system. Test your water that you mix before you add your salt see if you are adding phosphate to your tank. As far as your coraline algae it sounds like it is either dying off or bleaching out one or the other. Get both types of copper tests and check to make sure none of your pumps is possibly leaching copper into your system. I believe free copper is what you would test for. Really research your chemicals you add to your system. I don't add any thing to my tank just ocean water and some zoo plankton and phytoplankton. Along with some brine shrimp every now and then. Good luck

 

[JDK]

Your lighting might be ok. I found that when I used so many different products from different manufacturers it created an adverse affect on my corals. Try only using products specifically from only one maker. Different products have chemical reactions which can lead to big problems. Also why not use regular sea water. If ocean water is available use it. what ever you are mixing to make water could be contaminated.

Other than food there are really only two large additions to the tank regularly. Regular Red Sea Salt (NOT Red Sea Coral Pro salt) and BRS recipe 1 and BRS mag. Carbon and GFO is from BRS as well. The only new thing is I have been experimenting with is ReefRoids which is zooplankton food. I have only put it in the tank once. Not sure if natural sea water is available in my area. I was under the impression that red sea salt it just simply evaporated salt from the ocean. Which is why I chose it.

A deionizer is needed on your revers osmosis system. Test your water that you mix before you add your salt see if you are adding phosphate to your tank.

Are you referring to a DI resin cartridge? My RO unit has a DI cartridge. I test the water out of the RODI with a TDS meter frequently as well as the water from my house. I have tested phosphates in freshly mixed batches of water change water of the Red Sea salt and the phosphates have always been acceptably low. This is done with a Hanna colorimeter.

As far as your coraline algae it sounds like it is either dying off or bleaching out one or the other. Get both types of copper tests and check to make sure none of your pumps is possibly leaching copper into your system. I believe free copper is what you would test for. Really research your chemicals you add to your system. I don't add any thing to my tank just ocean water and some zoo plankton and phytoplankton. Along with some brine shrimp every now and then. Good luck

Definately think the coralline was bleaching. A week after lowering the lights intensity it started coming back and now it is back to normal. Never thought to test copper that is interesting. What is a good test brand to test for copper? Does Salifert have a "free" copper test? I have always had good results with their test kits.

Thanks for the advice

 

[JDK]

No doubt it helps with all coloration. but yes..too much white I have found causes alot of problems....at least in my tanks. For me I don't mind at all because I prefer a more blue anyhow.

Interesting..... maybe when I feel comfortable enough to begin raising the lights back up a little I will only raise the B/RB. I prefer the look of blue in the tank as well. The pop I get on my corals from Blue and Royal blue leds is amazing.

Just browsed through your thread and the tank looks great. That gives me hope. Most people just say your LEDs suck get a MH and I hate that attitude because I have seen great LED tanks like yours so I know it can be done.

I currently am running my lights at 30/40/40- W/B/RB peak for six hours a day. It ramps up to that from 12 noon to 2pm and then holds at those max levels until 8pm. Then is lowers down to just blues 0/10/10 for a couple hours for viewing.

I feel like I do have some shadowing on corals in my tank. The shaded areas are not colored at all. For instance the underside of my Garf Bonsai. The encrusting base is colored, as well as the full light side of the coral. Do you see this in your tank? Would raising the light help this at all? Obviously it is a spread issue with LEDs being a point of source light. Just wondering if this is normal and if you see the same thing in your tank?

 

[JDK]

So last week I did some manual removal of the Dictyota in my tank. I got a lot out but it has grown all the way back. Highly considering doing an AlgaeFix treatment on my tank. I really do not want to throw another variable into the tank as I proceed with this experiment but I feel if I dont get rid of this stuff now while it is isolated it is going to get out of control. For anyone who knows anything about Dictyota it can be a nightmare to get rid of. It is the terminator of nuisance macro algaes. There is a very good track record of algaefix taking out Dictyota permanently. I found some good stuff in this thread on "that other" forum- AlgaeFix Marine to control Hair Algae - Reef Central Online Community (dont enjoy linking there trust me)

Not sure though any advice would be great

Next set of coral progression pics to come on Monday

 

[robert]

I usually try and find something to eat what I want to get rid of but in this case your kind of stuck. If your tank were bigger a naso tang would love to live there,
I've never used AlgaeFix, but reading about it, it appears others have had good results without too much impact on corals.

So the question is treat now or treat later.

If it were me, I'd first manually remove as much of the Dictyota as possible - and treat now hoping to minimize the amount of algaefix required and with the hope that the nutrients no longer going to the algae might speed the recovery of your corals.
There's the risk that already stressed corals will be damaged or killed by the treatment - but that's a possibility even if you wait. If the worst happens - you can start rebuilding sooner.

 

[Young Frankenstein]

did you dose iron ?

 

[JDK]

I usually try and find something to eat what I want to get rid of but in this case your kind of stuck. If your tank were bigger a naso tang would love to live there,
I've never used AlgaeFix, but reading about it, it appears others have had good results without too much impact on corals.

So the question is treat now or treat later.

If it were me, I'd first manually remove as much of the Dictyota as possible - and treat now hoping to minimize the amount of algaefix required and with the hope that the nutrients no longer going to the algae might speed the recovery of your corals.
There's the risk that already stressed corals will be damaged or killed by the treatment - but that's a possibility even if you wait. If the worst happens - you can start rebuilding sooner.

You read my mind

 

[JDK]

did you dose iron ?

Yes I have been adding Aquavitro Fuel once a week which contains Iron along with other trace elements. 3 doses so far.

 

[Young Frankenstein]

Yes I have been adding Aquavitro Fuel once a week which contains Iron along with other trace elements. 3 doses so far.

That is some great stuff. it contains iron, but very little I have revived acropora using iron from sure death, thats why i suggested iron, in your case i don't think it was not iron that did the trick, but whatever you did work, so congratulations

Boron	96 µg
Iodine	180 µg
Iron	15 µg
Copper	1 µg
Zinc	5 µg
Manganese	62 µg
Bromide	300 µg
Cobalt	4 µg
Molybdenum	15 µg
Vanadium	28 µg
Nickel	0.4 µg
Tin	0.2 µg
Rubidium	1 µg

Minerals

Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)	5.0 mg
Thiamine (B1)	20 µg
Riboflavin (B2)	20 µg
Niacin (B3)	250 µg
Choline (B4)	4 µg
Vitamin B12	120.8 µg
Inositol	11 µg
Arginine	300 µg
Glutamate	600 µg
Lysine	300 µg
Tyrosine	190 µg
Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids	600 µg

Vitamins a Lipotropic Factors

Ingredients: chlorella, ascorbic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate, thiamine, riboflavin, inositol, choline chloride, vitamin B₁₂

 

[WesF]

As far as temperature goes I do not see how it is possible to calibrate a Digital Aquatics ReefKeeper temperature probe or have a temperature probe that is more or less calibrated. It is a thermometer. If we were talking PH or ORP I could see some validity there but we are talking temperature. The temperature may have swung at some point but not recently. My reefkeeper is set to keep the temperature at 77 within .1 degrees. This does not fluctuate unless my air conditioner breaks which it has not. My Living room is 72' all day every day.

I don't think temp is your issue but I just wanted to let you know that the Digital Aquatics temp sensor can be calibrated. Temp sensors can/will drift over time and should be periodically checked.

Annual re-calibration for temperature devices is the industry standard in the Pharma biz. . It's much less critical in a reef tank, but it is still a quick and easy procedure. Keep in mind that your calibration is only as good as your standard.

 

[-Logzor]

As far as temperature goes I do not see how it is possible to calibrate a Digital Aquatics ReefKeeper temperature probe or have a temperature probe that is more or less calibrated. It is a thermometer. If we were talking PH or ORP I could see some validity there but we are talking temperature. The temperature may have swung at some point but not recently. My reefkeeper is set to keep the temperature at 77 within .1 degrees. This does not fluctuate unless my air conditioner breaks which it has not. My Living room is 72' all day every day.


I am not having my LFS check my water. Maybe a fellow local reefer but not my LFS. Their tanks looks worse than mine. I love WWC and wish they could test mine but that is not an option. I am relying on Salifert. I have used multiple batches of tests and other brands such as API.

Once again... THIS IS NOT AN AI SOL! Everyone keeps talking about focused beams etc. etc. etc. An AI SOL LED runs a combination of 40' and 70' optics. This is an AI SOL NANO! The nano is ALL 70' optics. There are NO 40 degree optics in the mix. Comparing the two units is not valid and trying to compensate for the differences is a waste of time they are two very different lights. The focused beam problems with AI SOLS is not valid with this light. LED problems in general may be valid but as soon as you say focused beam I can not take your argument seriously. I have read thousands of posts about AI SOLs and the problems. This thread was great regarding AI SOLs. I have an AI NANO

Also reading about Roberto Lopes AI SOL tank was very helpful. He runs his lights crazy high and has an amazing tank. His success came partly from installing all 70' optics which the Nano has. Focused beams is not the problem here.

I appreciate everyones input and encourage more input here but please read the whole thread before telling me to test my water, check my temperature, or that LEDs are no good.

All aquarium controllers have an option to calibrate temperature probes. Anything that measures...well anything else, has to be calibrated at some point. Temperature probes are no exception. It's not like it's using mercury to determine temperature. My temp probe was reading 76 degrees when the water was actually 71. I used one of the lollipop thermometers found on Amazon.com. It was around $20. You can also use it for checking meat, brewing, etc.

 

[JDK]

It's much less critical in a reef tank, but it is still a quick and easy procedure. Keep in mind that your calibration is only as good as your standard.

I don't think temp is your issue but I just wanted to let you know that the Digital Aquatics temp sensor can be calibrated. Temp sensors can/will drift over time and should be periodically checked.

Annual re-calibration for temperature devices is the industry standard in the Pharma biz.

. It's much less critical in a reef tank, but it is still a quick and easy procedure. Keep in mind that your calibration is only as good as your standard.

How would I go about re-calibrating? I use a cheap coralife digital temperature probe when I do a water change to match the temperatures from new water to the tank. The coralife thermometer always is .2 degrees either above or below the RKL temperature probe. Is this sufficient to gauge whether the probe is still accurate?