Mysterious fish deaths

[Rybren]

Over the course of the past 5 days, I have lost 4 fish:

Paracheilinus lineopunctatus x P. angulatus
Wetmorella nigropinnata
Cirrhilabrus exquisitus
Acreichthys tomentosus

All have been in the tank for a minimum of 6 months and all had been eating and looking healthy and perfectly normal right up until they died.

The flasher and fairy wrasses were alive and well at lights out but were gone in the morning. I could find no trace of their bodies.

I found the filefish stuck to the side of an MP-40, but it spent a lot of time hanging out next to the powerhead and hadn't gotten stuck before, so I suspect that it died and then got trapped against the pump. I looked at the body with a magnifying glass and there were no wounds, ulcers or signs of external parasites.

I lost the possum wrasse today. I saw it swimming around and eating earlier in the afternoon. When I looked at the tank after supper, it was being blown around by the powerheads. It looked a tad bloated, but that could be my imagination. It was barely breathing when I netted it out of the tank. I placed it in a container of tank water and looked at it under a cheapie digital microscope. Again, there were no visible signs of injury nor were there any signs of parasites. The gills looked normal.

All of the other fish appear to be perfectly normal; no flashing, no stringy poo, no bumps/ich-like spots.

As a side note, over the past 1 -2 months, I had been experiencing STN with a number of my LPS corals and had performed 6 x 15% water changes about 2 weeks ago and I have been running more carbon than I normally would. I also added a poly filter to see if there would be a colour change, but there hasn't been.

The tank is a 120G with a 40B sump. I use IO salt mixed with 0 TDS RODI water. The tank is kept at the following parameters, which have remained stable over the past year:

Temp: 78.5 - 79.5
SG: 35ppt
pH: 8 - 8.1
NO2: undetectable
NO3: 5 - 10
PO4: <0.05
Alk: 9 dKh
Ca: 440 - 460
Mg: 1400

I use kalk in the ATO and dose 5 ml of DIY NOPOX spread out over the course of the day.

Does anyone have an idea as to what may be going on? Is there a reef-safe medication that I can use in-tank to help slow the deaths?

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[Maritimer]

Truly one of those situations where "everything looks good" ... and yet it clearly isn't. Intensely frustrating . . .

I personally don't have much to offer, other than thinking it might be something in the water, if both fish and corals are being affected. Wondering why such a high percentage of the affected fish are wrasses... Hopefully, other members of the #reefsquad can provide deeper insight!

~Bruce

 

[Jim C]

I am having fish weird fish deaths too, only wrasses as well.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Stray voltage?

 

[Rybren]

Could be, I do have a grounding probe in the water.

Any tips on how to check?

 

[4FordFamily]

Wow that's very odd and I am completely stumped.

For giggles, when was the last time you added something wet to the tank?

Have you used any cleaning chemicals nearby, done any kind of remodeling nearby, or anything different in the past few days?

 

[Rybren]

No, I haven't used any cleaning products lately, nor have I done any remodeling or changed anything.

Aside from water changes, the only 'wet' things have been the kalk/ATO mix and the DIY NOPOX. This batch of NOPOX has been running since June or July and I've been using the same kalk powder for over a year.

I've been thinking. Can Chloramine make it through the RO membrane and DI filter without registering any TDS? My membrane is a few years old, but my incoming TDS is less than 75 and the output from the membrane is still 0 to 1. It is zero after the DI.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Stray voltage is easy to check. Take the ground probe out and using a multimeter set to AC volts, put one probe in the tank water, and the other to ground. I use the round hole in a wall outlet for a ground.

 

[reefmagic]

Sounds like ammonia.

 

[cmcoker]

No, I haven't used any cleaning products lately, nor have I done any remodeling or changed anything.

Aside from water changes, the only 'wet' things have been the kalk/ATO mix and the DIY NOPOX. This batch of NOPOX has been running since June or July and I've been using the same kalk powder for over a year.

I've been thinking. Can Chloramine make it through the RO membrane and DI filter without registering any TDS? My membrane is a few years old, but my incoming TDS is less than 75 and the output from the membrane is still 0 to 1. It is zero after the DI.

Yes it can but should come through as ammonia, carbon should break the chlorine and ammonia apart but your ro filter won't remove those, and a near depleted di can let it through. Maybe test your fresh saltmix or ro for ammonia. Ammonia would not register as tds

I had this issue with a di canister that I think was not completely packed and was having ammonia show up in my water

 

[Rybren]

Stray voltage is easy to check. Take the ground probe out and using a multimeter set to AC volts, put one probe in the tank water, and the other to ground. I use the round hole in a wall outlet for a ground.

The meter shows 0 Volts with the probe in and 19 V with the probe disconnected. How much is too much?

Sounds like ammonia.

Yes it can but should come through as ammonia, carbon should break the chlorine and ammonia apart but your ro filter won't remove those, and a near depleted di can let it through. Maybe test your fresh saltmix or ro for ammonia. Ammonia would not register as tds.

Will pick up an ammonia test kit tomorrow. I would think, however, that if there was ammonia present, then there should also be some Nitrites being produced. There are none.

Thanks for all of the thoughts and tips.

 

[melypr1985]

. I would think, however, that if there was ammonia present, then there should also be some Nitrites being produced. There are none.

There are bacteria that will convert ammonia straight to nitrate. It happens.

 

[reefmagic]

Maybe the nopox is consuming the nitrate. Maybe spike in ammonia that hasn't converted fully to nitrate as well.

 

[reefmagic]

Nitrite is very short live usually instantly conver to nitrate and rarely ever positive even with ammonia spike.

 

[redfishbluefish]

The meter shows 0 Volts with the probe in and 19 V with the probe disconnected. How much is too much?

19 volts sounds a bit high to simply all be induced voltage. Start unplugging one piece of equipment at a time to ID the culprit. I'd start with heaters.

 

[Seanb1]

Any time I've ever seen unexplained fish losses with no obvious signs of disease
In fresh or salt I always think of chloramines.
Exhausted carbon filters in ro filters can lead to this.
Chloramines will just build up in your tank never going away.
Get a chlorine test kit from the filter guys or anywhere that carries them.
Something to think about.

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm gonna go with an undercover ICH outbreak. You may not see it, but it's in the gills and mostly likely the fish have developed somewhat of an immunity to it. More often than not when strange deaths occur and the fish have been in your tank for the time frame you've given, I'd be highly suspicious of ICH. Just put a clean PBT in there, you'll find out quick.

 

[Brew12]

19 volts sounds a bit high to simply all be induced voltage. Start unplugging one piece of equipment at a time to ID the culprit. I'd start with heaters.

It really depends on the setup. I get around 23V with my ground probe removed and that is with everything on a GFCI.

My favorite way of testing for a failed piece of electrical equipment is with a GFCI unit. Get yourself something like this.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Shock-Bust...-Single-to-Single-Yellow-GFCI-Adapter/1135923

With your ground probe installed, plug any submerged electrical equipment into this device one at a time and turn it on. If the device has an electrical fault it will trip the GFCI. Quick, cheap, easy and effective.

There are bacteria that will convert ammonia straight to nitrate. It happens.

+1 on this. The bacteria that do this are in the Nitrospira family. If you ever seeded your tank with either Dr Tims bacteria or Biospira you probably have high populations of these bacteria.

 

[Rybren]

If the issue is ammonia coming from a faulty RODI unit, could I safely add Prime to the reef as an interim stop-gap measure?

Once again,thanks to everyone for your thoughts and ideas.

 

[Rybren]

It really depends on the setup. I get around 23V with my ground probe removed and that is with everything on a GFCI.

My favorite way of testing for a failed piece of electrical equipment is with a GFCI unit. Get yourself something like this.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Shock-Bust...-Single-to-Single-Yellow-GFCI-Adapter/1135923

With your ground probe installed, plug any submerged electrical equipment into this device one at a time and turn it on. If the device has an electrical fault it will trip the GFCI. Quick, cheap, easy and effective.



+1 on this. The bacteria that do this are in the Nitrospira family. If you ever seeded your tank with either Dr Tims bacteria or Biospira you probably have high populations of these bacteria.

This looks like a portable GFCI? All of my equipment is already plugged into a GFCI.