Nano Tank Dilemma - What Do I Do? :/

[King George]

Hi everyone - thank you for taking the time to provide some insight. I have a few dilemmas, could really use your advice!

I have a 26g Red Sea Nano Peninsula. It's cycled and has been running for a couple months. I haven't had any issues with water parameters (just working on "perfecting them"). I went to my LFS to have my water tested today, and this is where I'm at:

STOCKING: 1 Juvenile Snowflake Clownfish (started with 2, one didn't make it at the beginning), 1 Azure/Kupang Damsel, 1 Fire Shrimp, 5 Mexican Turbo Snails. (NO CORALS YET, waiting to raise the parameters below).

pH: 7.9 (Goal: 8.2-8.4)
Alkalinity: 147 ppm (Goal: 160-200)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.0 ppm
Nitrate: 12 ppm
Calcium: 396 ppm (Goal: 450)
Magnesium: 1047 ppm (Goal: 1350)
Salt: 1.023 SG (should be higher, will raise it with next WC)
Temperature: 78 degrees (F)

Obviously there is room for improvement, which I am working on. The tank has been up and running for a couple months, with well-established beneficial bacteria (algae growing, but my CC takes care of it). As of tomorrow, I am going to start dosing Ca and Mg in my ATO to raise it a bit, along with some Buffer for Alk.

ISSUES/DILEMMAS

• I want to go back to 2 clowns, but I'm not sure what to do. I believe my first one passed due to injuries from structure, as I never saw the 2 pick at each other. Anyways - looking forward, I can tell my damsel is now more dominant than my juvenile Clown. I really would like to avoid more Clownfish passing, but not sure what to do. If I were to try keeping my current clown and adding another, it should be bigger/Female, right? That is what my LFS told me, as it would give the new Clown a chance to assert itself/herself.
  • Would it be better to just surrender my current Snowflake and get 2 new Clowns that are already paired or at least familiar with each other/not Juveniles?
• This is not really a problem, but I do want to get a Cleaner Shrimp in addition to my Fire Shrimp. Is this feasible?

I have a few other questions, but I don't want to go on much longer in this post; I'm sure you guys would lose interest :'). If I could get some advice on the above please!!! Thank you <3

 

[DanyL]

I am going to start dosing Ca and Mg in my ATO to raise it a bit, along with some Buffer for Alk.

Do not add them all together - you cannot mix Alk and Ca as they’ll react to each other.
It is also a bad idea to use the ATO for dosing, because you don’t have control over the daily amounts.

Dose manually once a day, just wait a few minutes between dosing Alk and Ca and you’ll be fine.

I want to go back to 2 clowns, but I'm not sure what to do. I believe my first one passed due to injuries from structure, as I never saw the 2 pick at each other. Anyways - looking forward, I can tell my damsel is now more dominant than my juvenile Clown. I really would like to avoid more Clownfish passing, but not sure what to do. If I were to try keeping my current clown and adding another, it should be bigger/Female, right? That is what my LFS told me, as it would give the new Clown a chance to assert itself/herself.

• Would it be better to just surrender my current Snowflake and get 2 new Clowns that are already paired or at least familiar with each other/not Juveniles?

I wouldn’t surrender the current one as they’ll eventually pair. I was in same situation 16 years ago - both are alive, paired and well to this day.

If you have concerns about the Damsel attacking it, getting a female is a good plan.

This is not really a problem, but I do want to get a Cleaner Shrimp in addition to my Fire Shrimp. Is this feasible?

Go for it.

I have a few other questions, but I don't want to go on much longer in this post; I'm sure you guys would lose interest :').

Feel free to ask more questions - words are just bits and bytes, and storage is on rev’s expense anyway

 

[LandLockedJones]

So, it’s tough to say which you need, How long has your clown been alone? And are you certain it was the male?

I’m not an expert, but as I understand it, if your clown was a male at the time the other died. It would likely have converted to a female. As it now is the dominant clown. Therefore you would probably need to get one that was smaller and was confirmed to be a male. It should stay that way.

But a female clown alone in a tank may be quite aggressive toward the newcomer. If a second female were added it would be a fight to the death. If a male is added, it will submit(most likely) or fight to the death.

I would probably go for a smaller clown you know is a male, because if yours turns out to be a female then the new one is bound to submit. If yours happens to be a male, the more aggressive will become the female. It will be a battle, but one will likely give in before dying.

I’m not sure if another species of damsels being dominant would be able to suppress the change in sex if the fish was alone without a mate.

 

[King George]

Do not add them all together - you cannot mix Alk and Ca as they’ll react to each other.
It is also a bad idea to use the ATO for dosing, because you don’t have control over the daily amounts.

Dose manually once a day, just wait a few minutes between dosing Alk and Ca and you’ll be fine.



I wouldn’t surrender the current one as they’ll eventually pair. I was in same situation 16 years ago - both are alive, paired and well to this day.

If you have concerns about the Damsel attacking it, getting a female is a good plan.


Go for it.


Feel free to ask more questions - words are just bits and bytes, and storage is on rev’s expense anyway

You are a lifesaver, covering all points (in a very organized manner, might I add) - I appreciate you big time!

Thank you SO MUCH for giving me a heads up on the dosing, I do recall reading that but would've been screwed if you didn't remind me. As for dosing manually, should I add in the back chamber or the actual tank itself?

Getting another Clown: I saw a bigger (assuming female) Picasso clown at my LFS today. Do you think them being different colors/patterns could present any issues? They are both Occy Clowns, and I know even then that wouldn't ensure a pair - just a trial and error type of thing as I've learned. Just out of curiousity, your first replacement clown paired? Or did it take a few tries?

Thanks again for your help! @DanyL

 

[King George]

So, it’s tough to say which you need, How long has your clown been alone? And are you certain it was the male?

I’m not an expert, but as I understand it, if your clown was a male at the time the other died. It would likely have converted to a female. As it now is the dominant clown. Therefore you would probably need to get one that was smaller and was confirmed to be a male. It should stay that way.

But a female clown alone in a tank may be quite aggressive toward the newcomer. If a second female were added it would be a fight to the death. If a male is added, it will submit(most likely) or fight to the death.

I would probably go for a smaller clown you know is a male, because if yours turns out to be a female then the new one is bound to submit. If yours happens to be a male, the more aggressive will become the female. It will be a battle, but one will likely give in before dying.

I’m not sure if another species of damsels being dominant would be able to suppress the change in sex if the fish was alone without a mate.

My Clown has been alone for 2 weeks (3 max). I believe both of them were male when I got them, they were both the same size (no bigger than 2 inches) and definitely not paired yet as they were young. The one that made it is still rather small, so I'm assuming he's still a male.

As for the damsel suppressing the clown's sex change, I don't think that's the case. I was just saying that I am worried that adding a new fish in general, would provoke the Damsel.

 

[LandLockedJones]

I see, that makes sense about the damsel. I was a bit confused about that one but I figure who knows fish are weird haha An acclimation box could help, or a tank divider of some sort.

Not sure how long it takes for the sex change to occur. It seems to be a quick process when they do pair but I have no idea if it happens in a day or 3 months after being alone.

Just recommending caution. Personally I would add the smaller one because I do not know how long it takes. But I’m sure it will be fine. I am unnecessarily cautious sometimes, so there’s that.

Or would go with the thought of surrendering the clown and adding a new pair.

 

[King George]

I see, that makes sense about the damsel. I was a bit confused about that one but I figure who knows fish are weird haha An acclimation box could help, or a tank divider of some sort.

Not sure how long it takes for the sex change to occur. It seems to be a quick process when they do pair but I have no idea if it happens in a day or 3 months after being alone.

Just recommending caution. Personally I would add the smaller one because I do not know how long it takes. But I’m sure it will be fine. I am unnecessarily cautious sometimes, so there’s that.

Or would go with the thought of surrendering the clown and adding a new pair.

Good call on the acclimation box, I read about that too - heard some good things.

I really appreciate your help! I am overly cautious too, that's why I made the post in the first place haha.

Definitely considered surrendering the current clown to get a definite pair - unfortunately I am already attached to the Snowflake Clown I have now. Funny how that works lol, that's for sure. He is just so active and fun to watch. Hence why I am worried about adding another and having him end up in trouble!!!

 

[DanyL]

You are a lifesaver, covering all points (in a very organized manner, might I add) - I appreciate you big time!

Sure thing!

should I add in the back chamber or the actual tank itself?

I don’t know how the back of the tank looks like, but if you have the area above the return pump accessible - I’d dose there.
Otherwise, you can dose straight into the tank itself in a turbulent area - like in front of the return pump or wave makers.

Do you think them being different colors/patterns could present any issues?

As long the species of the clowns is the same, they should be able to pair with each other. I don’t know if different patterns would influence it though, but I do know that it does happen.

Just out of curiousity, your first replacement clown paired? Or did it take a few tries?

They paired on first try

Here they are today

 

[Velcro]

Parameters should fix themselves by raising salinity. Just use saltwater of desired salinity as you evaporation replacement until salinity is at target.

 

[DanyL]

Parameters should fix themselves by raising salinity. Just use saltwater of desired salinity as you evaporation replacement until salinity is at target.

Good call.

However, I wouldn’t hesitate to raise it manually in 2 portions - from 1.023 to 1.024 and a couple of days later to 1.025.

 

[King George]

Sure thing!


I don’t know how the back of the tank looks like, but if you have the area above the return pump accessible - I’d dose there.
Otherwise, you can dose straight into the tank itself in a turbulent area - like in front of the return pump or wave makers.


As long the species of the clowns is the same, they should be able to pair with each other. I don’t know if different patterns would influence it though, but I do know that it does happen.


They paired on first try

Here they are today

Wow, those Clowns are beautiful, as well as gracious hosts lol. Have to mention how amazing their fins are, they look so healthy!

 

[King George]

Parameters should fix themselves by raising salinity. Just use saltwater of desired salinity as you evaporation replacement until salinity is at target.

@Velcro @DanyL , this sounds great - haven't considered that. To be honest, I haven't done a WC yet (since fish have been added, I did at the tail-end of cycling) - as there weren't any immediate issues. I have seen plenty of people go a couple months without water changes on nano tanks with great success, and just wanted to get adjusted to the hobby myself as I was previously solely in the freshwater hobby. BTW - never looking back haha.

What do you think about adding small amounts of salt water to my ATO and then retesting my water to see if any parameter issues resolve themselves? Or do you recommend that I do a 10-20% water change to ensure stability and go for that goal of 1.025-1.026 salinity SG? Let me know what you think!

 

[DanyL]

Wow, those Clowns are beautiful, as well as gracious hosts lol. Have to mention how amazing their fins are, they look so healthy!

Thank you!

And yes, that’s how they look in nature actually, as these are wild caught - from the time when designer clowns did not exist yet, and aquacultured clowns only showed shortly after.

 

[Peair]

Sure thing!


I don’t know how the back of the tank looks like, but if you have the area above the return pump accessible - I’d dose there.
Otherwise, you can dose straight into the tank itself in a turbulent area - like in front of the return pump or wave makers.


As long the species of the clowns is the same, they should be able to pair with each other. I don’t know if different patterns would influence it though, but I do know that it does happen.


They paired on first try

Here they are today

Hi, could you post a picture of your entire tank? thanks

 

[King George]

Hi, could you post a picture of your entire tank? thanks

Of course! Hopefully they are viewable, sometimes R2R gives me some trouble - I think it's because they are HD. Also, it's almost 9PM for me so it might be hard to see the Clown & Damsel!

 

[DanyL]

I have seen plenty of people go a couple months without water changes on nano tanks with great success

Especially in nanos, but on larger systems as well - I’m a big advocate of weekly water changes.

On new tanks with dry rocks however, you can actually make the tank too clean, so I advice to watch your nutrients and act accordingly.

I was previously solely in the freshwater hobby. BTW - never looking back haha.

We all did, it’s funny how fast this transition to saltwater and lost of interest in fw occurs.

What do you think about adding small amounts of salt water to my ATO and then retesting my water to see if any parameter issues resolve themselves? Or do you recommend that I do a 10-20% water change to ensure stability and go for that goal of 1.025-1.026 salinity SG? Let me know what you think!

I personally dislike the approach of using the ATO for this kind of uses.

Like I said earlier - I would split it into 2 portions and do it manually with 2-3 days in between until you get to the desired salinity.
Moreover, on my larger system I went straight from 1.023 to 1.026 in one go, but I’d hesitate to recommend this to others.

Hi, could you post a picture of your entire tank? thanks

Mine or OPs?

 

[King George]

Especially in nanos, but on larger systems as well - I’m a big advocate of weekly water changes.

On new tanks with dry rocks however, you can actually make the tank too clean, so I advice to watch your nutrients and act accordingly.


We all did, it’s funny how fast this transition to saltwater and lost of interest in fw occurs.


I personally dislike the approach of using the ATO for this kind of uses.

Like I said earlier - I would split it into 2 portions and do it manually with 2-3 days in between until you get to the desired salinity.
Moreover, on my larger system I went straight from 1.023 to 1.026 in one go, but I’d hesitate to recommend this to others.


Mine or OPs?

Loud and clear - I will stick to weekly WCs (maybe biweekly), as I watch my parameters like a hawk lol. And yeah, no kidding haha. I don't think I'll ever have another fw tank at this rate lol.

As for dosing, thanks so much for the advice. You definitely make a good point, hard to monitor changes in parameters when dosing through ATO. Instead, I will just moderately dose in front of return pump so it evenly flows throughout the tank.

Again, thanks so much for your help.

 

[King George]

Mine or OPs?

Btw, I would love to see pics of your tank if you don't mind. Or if you could LMK how to see via your profile if possible - I'm still pretty new to R2R lol.

 

[DanyL]

I don’t have any gallery here, and I did not update my frag tank’s build thread either.

But I did post a few pics of both of my systems in a lighting related discussion a few of days ago.

Best light for sps only tank

;)

www.reef2reef.com

 

[King George]

I don’t have any gallery here, and I did not update my frag tank’s build thread either.

But I did post a few pics of both of my systems in a lighting related discussion a few of days ago.

Best light for sps only tank

;)

www.reef2reef.com

.......Holy hell.... if that's not a dream tank then I don't know what is. As a beginner to salt, I can tell you with full confidence that I am 10000% envious of that tank. Corals look amazing, fish residents look just as good. Beautiful dude, seriously beautiful!!!

Do I see a PB tang in there? My fav fish for sure!