Neptune APEX Reliability (Shocking in my experience!)

[robbyg]

This system is also significantly more in terms of price. 990$ for a basic unit? With a price tag like that,

While I cannot comment on any other controller, I've been using my apex classic for about 5 years now with 0 failures. Some minor software glitches, but that even happens to multi billion dollar companies(windows, IOS, android to name a few).

And you guys all say apex is a ripoff. lol

Please if your going to have a conversation keep it honest.
Before Aquatronica Pulled out of the USA market in 2018 the Base Unit was $650 and NOT $990.
That included the Controller with built in 7" color touch screen along with an 8 plug power bar with it's own built in CPU and Memory that has 8 USB expansion ports and two float or level ports. It also comes with a Ph Module and Ph Probe along with Temp and a level sensor.

The Deluxe unit was $795 and came with:
Base unit with 7" color touch display.
1x 8 port Intelligent Powerbar.
1x pH module and Probe
1x Salinity Module and Probe
1x ORP Module and Probe
1x Temp Probe
1x Level Sensor

The equivalent Apex system is $799.95 on BRS and has no color touch Screen.

I would expect it to do more and have better reliability then something thats nearly half it's price. You also have to have "interfaces" for your probes which is another piece of equipment that could potentially fail, rather then just plugging the probe into the head unit. Your probes may not fail, but from my limited reading these "interfaces" fail

Nope I have about nine interfaces on my system and only one of them has failed in 15 years. Sorry but this thing of equipment failure that you have gotten so use to is a rarity on many of the other systems. Those module Interfaces are a nice part of the system because they are cheap, like typically $65 for an interface. If one does go you don't lose a whole section of your system you just replace that module. Also because they are like USB devices they are never antiquated. Most of my module were bought in 2004 and I have since upgraded my Head unit from the old tiny one with low res LCD displays made back in 2004 to the much more powerful Touch Controller in 2015. It was just a single USB cable change over and the new head unit Auto detected all my old modules, dosing pump and SMS equipment etc and was ready to be programmed.

 

[BZOFIQ]

From the manual

"Time Zone Set Up
Now that your Apex is installed at your Aquarium, you can begin to configure your Apex on how to control and monitor your Aquarium.

Set the time zone in your controller. On your display screen: System> Clock Setup> Time Zone (East, -5, Central, -6, Mountain, -7, and Pacific, -8).

International Time zones will vary, check what time zone you are in here.

Confirm the time is correct by selecting “Tank Time Set”"

I searched " Classic Time Zone" in google

Get Started Guide - Apex Classic

Helpful Resources Apex Classic Get Started Guide PDF Neptune Systems Apex Classic FAQ Latest Apex Classic Software Update Variable Speed Port connection w/ Kessil A360 Comprehensive Reference Manual Connect

www.neptunesystems.com

I'll point you back to post 374, I provided a screenshot already.

Time zone is set correctly. Double clock persists.

 

[Brew12]

Before Aquatronica Pulled out of the USA market in 2018 the Base Unit was $650 and NOT $990.
That included the Controller with built in 7" color touch screen along with an 8 plug power bar with it's own built in CPU and Memory that has 8 USB expansion ports and two float or level ports. It also comes with a Ph Module and Ph Probe along with Temp and a level sensor.

They are still available in the US market

Aquatronica Aquarium Controller Unit Kit Net HY02740 @ Fish Tanks Direct

Aquatronica HY02740 In-Stock Now. Buy Your Aquatronica Aquarium Controller Unit Kit Net Direct and Save. Free Shipping on Orders Over $75. Tax-Free.

www.fishtanksdirect.com

$700 without the touch screen.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Absolutely correct. Just pointing out that has nothing to do with the manufacturer of the controller. That same Aquatronica salinity probe could be used on an Apex or GHL controller with little to no modifications.

That said, as cost saving measure neptune can source its probes from a lower end manufacturer than others....perhaps. Owning multiple probes I can reassure you that GHLs probes are on a different level

 

[BZOFIQ]

The reason Neptune does not use this probe is because it is expensive and they cannot make any huge profits off of it. That is the same reason that they use Paddle wheel flow sensors instead of Vortex sensors for Flow measurement like GHL and Aquatronica do. They are cheap to buy and are made by tons of companies in China. This Probe and the Vertex flow sensors are made in Germany.

Night and day here as well.

The flow sensor neptune uses is a generic that can be sources off amazon and ebay, albeit without the Neptune sticker

 

[Brew12]

That said, as cost saving measure neptune can source its probes from a lower end manufacturer than others....perhaps. Owning multiple probes I can reassure you that GHLs probes are on a different level

I run a GHL but still have my old Apex. I've noticed no difference between the quality of the probes. Granted, I didn't have the salinity probe on my Apex like I do on my GHL now but the other probes perform identically.

Just my experience.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I run a GHL but still have my old Apex. I've noticed no difference between the quality of the probes. Granted, I didn't have the salinity probe on my Apex like I do on my GHL now but the other probes perform identically.

Just my experience.

and salinity probe especially is where people have problems.

 

[Joe Rice]

The flow sensor neptune uses is a generic that can be sources off amazon and ebay, albeit without the Neptune sticker

How do you know this?

 

[BZOFIQ]

How do you know this?

Buy both and see it.

 

[Brew12]

How do you know this?

Buy both and see it.

Just like with probes, the aquarium controller manufacturers don't build their own flow meters. They are built by a 3rd party and re-branded. Very little in this hobby is made by the companies whose name is on them. I think Sicce may still make a few of their own motors but pretty much every other aquarium pump is made by a generic motor shop somewhere and branded for an aquarium company.

If I wanted a flow meter on my system, I would need to go with a paddle wheel type like the Neptune. While I much prefer the vortex style, to get an accurate reading on a 1" line requires almost a foot of straight pipe into the sensor and 6" of straight pipe out of the sensor. I don't have a straight run of plumbing that long. The paddle wheel would be my only reasonably accurate option. With my GHL, that isn't an option.

 

[robbyg]

I'm just going off of their website.

Aquatronica

www.aquatronica.com

Nope they probably got the Italian to English Translation messed up or they deliberately said that because they are tired of their ideas being ripped off.

Here is a new Probe and as you can see it has no electrodes. I have also used a dremel to slice open my first probe after it died giving 2.5 years of perfect service. My second Probe is now on its third year so I bought a spare to be prepared.

Its a solid stick with an internal coil wrapped around that donut section at the bottom. They simply inject an AC voltage into the coil and detect changes on the secondary pickup coil. More salinity means more current will flow through from the primary coil to the secondary coil. I cut open my first one because I could not figure out why it had failed, I just assumed it had a fixed life span, but that made no sense. The Autopsy revealed that water had gotten down through the wire at the top and into the case. With my second probe I siliconed over the whole top and it has been going strong for three years. I don't know if it will last for 6 more months or 6 more years, so I bought a spare. That is the only PITA with working with Aquatronica is that you now have to order parts on their Italian website and the shipping prices are high. The packages do arrive in three days so that part is not bad.

 

[robbyg]

If I wanted a flow meter on my system, I would need to go with a paddle wheel type like the Neptune. While I much prefer the vortex style, to get an accurate reading on a 1" line requires almost a foot of straight pipe into the sensor and 6" of straight pipe out of the sensor. I don't have a straight run of plumbing that long. The paddle wheel would be my only reasonably accurate option. With my GHL, that isn't an option.

Meh I would not worry about it all that much. My Vortex sensor only has about 3" of pipe on either side before it goes into expansion pipes. With the Default settings I was getting 740 GPH which as you rightly say would have been off because of the pipe issue. All I did was hand measure the flow with a bucket and then go into the calibrate mode and enter the correct number which was 795 GPH.

Personally the accuracy of flow meter is nice but not all that important for a return pump. I am more interested in just knowing that there are no major down trends in the flow that indicate the impeller needs cleaning or something is faulty. I would avoid the paddle wheel at all cost as it just kills so much of your flow and is prone to being clogged and needing to be cleaned.

 

[robbyg]

They are still available in the US market

Aquatronica Aquarium Controller Unit Kit Net HY02740 @ Fish Tanks Direct

Aquatronica HY02740 In-Stock Now. Buy Your Aquatronica Aquarium Controller Unit Kit Net Direct and Save. Free Shipping on Orders Over $75. Tax-Free.

www.fishtanksdirect.com

$700 without the touch screen.

Thats not an authorized dealer and he is charging $700 for the older controller kit that the Authorized USA dealer sold for $399.

 

[Brew12]

Nope they probably got the Italian to English Translation messed up or they deliberately said that because they are tired of their ideas being ripped off.

Here is a new Probe and as you can see it has no electrodes. I have also used a dremel to slice open my first probe after it died giving 2.5 years of perfect service. My second Probe is now on its third year so I bought a spare to be prepared.

Its a solid stick with an internal coil wrapped around that donut section at the bottom. They simply inject an AC voltage into the coil and detect changes on the secondary pickup coil. More salinity means more current will flow through from the primary coil to the secondary coil. I cut open my first one because I could not figure out why it had failed, I just assumed it had a fixed life span, but that made no sense. The Autopsy revealed that water had gotten down through the wire at the top and into the case. With my second probe I siliconed over the whole top and it has been going strong for three years. I don't know if it will last for 6 more months or 6 more years, so I bought a spare. That is the only PITA with working with Aquatronica is that you now have to order parts on their Italian website and the shipping prices are high. The packages do arrive in three days so that part is not bad.

Well that is interesting. The part number on your probe matches their website but your pictures are obviously not a match for what they have on their website or on 3rd party websites. I'm going to have to look into this more. It seems hard to believe that they would purposefully mislead people on how their product works. The pictures don't lie, though.

It would be pretty impressive depending on which technology they use. I'm familiar with 2 methods of using magnetism to measure reluctance of the air gap. Makes me curious, if it is as it appears, which one they would use.

On a side note, you should try fishtanksdirect.com for parts. When I was inquiring about the Aquatronica they said I could order parts through them cheaper than I could get them myself. I just needed to email them for a quote of what I wanted from the Aquatronica website.

 

[Brew12]

Thats not an authorized dealer and he is charging $700 for the older controller kit that the Authorized USA dealer sold for $399.

Well that is interesting. Guess it is one more thing to look into.

 

[robbyg]

Well that is interesting. The part number on your probe matches their website but your pictures are obviously not a match for what they have on their website or on 3rd party websites. I'm going to have to look into this more. It seems hard to believe that they would purposefully mislead people on how their product works. The pictures don't lie, though.

Yeah they had a massive theft of their ideas and designs so they are very reluctant to share info on anything. If you look at MindStreams Website you will notice that they have a whole URL dedicated to showing their Patent numbers for each part of the tech.

BTW people who have never owned a probe like this will never know what it means to have readings that you can 100% trust. After the first year of two of ownership and always double checking the probes reading against my Refractometer I started to realize this thing is never off, it always reads perfectly. After that I trusted it completly. Now almost six years later I only use my Refactometer maybe twice a year. I even take a cups of my salt mix and stick the probe into it to know when it's right.

It would be pretty impressive depending on which technology they use. I'm familiar with 2 methods of using magnetism to measure reluctance of the air gap. Makes me curious, if it is as it appears, which one they would use.

I am not sure, I should have paid more attention when I sliced open the probe, but the moment I opened it and saw the water egress from the cord I stopped what I was doing and quickly cleaned my new one which was already installed and put Silicone all over the wire connector. At this point I am feeling really confident that this probe has no defined life expectancy.

On a side note, you should try fishtanksdirect.com for parts. When I was inquiring about the Aquatronica they said I could order parts through them cheaper than I could get them myself. I just needed to email them for a quote of what I wanted from the Aquatronica website.

Thanks I will give them a call but based on that doubling of price from the normal dealers price I am having some serious doubts.

 

[BZOFIQ]

.While I much prefer the vortex style, to get an accurate reading on a 1" line requires almost a foot of straight pipe into the sensor and 6" of straight pipe out of the sensor. I don't have a straight run of plumbing that long. The paddle wheel would be my only reasonably accurate option. With my GHL, that isn't an option.

@Brew12

Was this something confirmed by GHL or mentioned in the literature?

 

[Jon Fishman]

I am using a small Samsung Tab I had laying around to display. I leave it plugged in 24/7. I had to put it in developer mode so it would not go to sleep. You may need to do that to the ipad as well. You could also use an old smart phone as well.

Got it running on an iPad Mini now. Working fine. WXM is plugged in, haven’t tried connecting anything to it yet

 

[Lifelongaquaria]

I apologize for takingyour thread off course. Just got a good reply here and none on my thread.i will quit posting here as my complaints were my own fault.

 

[Brew12]

BTW people who have never owned a probe like this will never know what it means to have readings that you can 100% trust. After the first year of two of ownership and always double checking the probes reading against my Refractometer I started to realize this thing is never off, it always reads perfectly.

I am pretty sure the entire reason for magnetic reluctance based water density measurements was for long term monitoring of aquafers. Exactly for the reason they don't take maintenance to keep reading accurately. I've never seen them used in industry or in hobby level equipment.

I am not sure, I should have paid more attention when I sliced open the probe, but the moment I opened it and saw the water egress from the cord I stopped what I was doing and quickly cleaned my new one which was already installed and put Silicone all over the wire connector. At this point I am feeling really confident that this probe has no defined life expectancy.

I wouldn't know how to tell the difference based on construction. I know one uses measurements by the change in magnetic coupling between coils. The other method I know of uses a harmonic filter where changes in inductance change the frequency it is tuned to. I might be able to figure it out looking at the circuit card they connect to, but not the probe.

Yeah they had a massive theft of their ideas and designs so they are very reluctant to share info on anything. If you look at MindStreams Website you will notice that they have a whole URL dedicated to showing their Patent numbers for each part of the tech.

Unfortunate. I would hope that isn't their reasoning, but I guess I couldn't blame them.

Thanks I will give them a call but based on that doubling of price from the normal dealers price I am having some serious doubts.

I regret even mentioning them. I do not appreciate that they presented themselves as an official dealer. Poor business practice imo, which I don't support.