New Pred tank!

[PicassoClown04]

Hey guys! Currently I am a college freshman in NOLA and I have a lot of experience with aquariums. My dad has been in the hobby for 40 years working with ADG (Houston) as well as people like Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeek (Two Little Fishies).

I couldn’t stand to not have a tank in the room (and may have gotten slightly carried away) so now I have 3 salts and 3 fresh, the newest being a 10 gallon grow out (I have a larger, mature tank at home waiting for them) for a pred tank! Very simple set up for now as the semester ends in 2 weeks so it’s basically a QT style tank. I am not running any medications due to the nature of the inhabitants, they are just under observation. So far there is a dwarf fuzzy lionfish, white wart skin anglerfish, and a geometric eel (which I’m fairly certain is more rare in the hobby?) All are eating live food bred by myself with Hikari silversides about 1x every 2 weeks, which seems okay according to posts by Lion King

Enjoy!

 

[Aspect]

I would throw some 2"-3" pvc in there to make the eel more comfortable, and if possible do something with the heater maybe get a smaller one that will fit in the filter because it's a burn hazard. Not sure what size the Eel is but 10g is pretty dang small and being that they're predators there will likely be a significant bio load on a 10 gal without any rock/sand. Just some things to keep in mind, maybe move some established biofilter over.

 

[lion king]

Hey guys! Currently I am a college freshman in NOLA and I have a lot of experience with aquariums. My dad has been in the hobby for 40 years working with ADG (Houston) as well as people like Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeek (Two Little Fishies).

I couldn’t stand to not have a tank in the room (and may have gotten slightly carried away) so now I have 3 salts and 3 fresh, the newest being a 10 gallon grow out (I have a larger, mature tank at home waiting for them) for a pred tank! Very simple set up for now as the semester ends in 2 weeks so it’s basically a QT style tank. I am not running any medications due to the nature of the inhabitants, they are just under observation. So far there is a dwarf fuzzy lionfish, white wart skin anglerfish, and a geometric eel (which I’m fairly certain is more rare in the hobby?) All are eating live food bred by myself with Hikari silversides about 1x every 2 weeks, which seems okay according to posts by Lion King

Enjoy!

Very cool crew! I did change my silverside recommendation to San Francisco Bay brand, Hikari changed the species of fish they are using. As long as it isn't the dominant part of their diet it will not make any issue, but here's an article you may find of interest. Just monitor ammonia closely, with these types of fish ammonia can spike really fast in a small qt setup, and it can prove deadly.

A Brief Word On Silversides…

Odds are, if you’re at all familiar with silversides, it’s from having fed their defrosted corpses to a larger carnivore. But while they may be little more

reefs.com

 

[PicassoClown04]

I would throw some 2"-3" pvc in there to make the eel more comfortable, and if possible do something with the heater maybe get a smaller one that will fit in the filter because it's a burn hazard. Not sure what size the Eel is but 10g is pretty dang small and being that they're predators there will likely be a significant bio load on a 10 gal without any rock/sand. Just some things to keep in mind, maybe move some established biofilter over.

This tank is fairly old, almost a year, and the HOB is rated for a 75 gal. I’m doing weekly water changes to deal with the excess waste and testing 3-4x per week to make sure all ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite levels are within range

They are going into a dedicated 40 gallon in 2 weeks with tons of live rock, caves, tubing, etc. I actually just ordered some PVC elbows on Amazon for the eel. I wasn’t planning on getting an eel (at least not yet) but after seeing him in the store and doing about 30 mins of research and finding next to nothing except that they get about 2’ long and are reef-safe (as much as eels can be). He was also only around $100 and I can only find one other for sale at $275 and a record of one from 2020 for $450 so I had to have him!

 

[lion king]

This tank is fairly old, almost a year, and the HOB is rated for a 75 gal. I’m doing weekly water changes to deal with the excess waste and testing 3-4x per week to make sure all ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite levels are within range

They are going into a dedicated 40 gallon in 2 weeks with tons of live rock, caves, tubing, etc. I actually just ordered some PVC elbows on Amazon for the eel. I wasn’t planning on getting an eel (at least not yet) but after seeing him in the store and doing about 30 mins of research and finding next to nothing except that they get about 2’ long and are reef-safe (as much as eels can be). He was also only around $100 and I can only find one other for sale at $275 and a record of one from 2020 for $450 so I had to have him!

Yes that geometric eel is a great find! That filter should be fine to handle the load.

 

[PicassoClown04]

Very cool crew! I did change my silverside recommendation to San Francisco Bay brand, Hikari changed the species of fish they are using. As long as it isn't the dominant part of their diet it will not make any issue, but here's an article you may find of interest. Just monitor ammonia closely, with these types of fish ammonia can spike really fast in a small qt setup, and it can prove deadly.

A Brief Word On Silversides…

Odds are, if you’re at all familiar with silversides, it’s from having fed their defrosted corpses to a larger carnivore. But while they may be little more

reefs.com

Thank so you much! I will switch my brand as soon as possible since I’m feeding all three preds this. Do you know anything about/ have experience with geometric morays? I can’t find anything online about them

 

[PicassoClown04]

Very cool crew! I did change my silverside recommendation to San Francisco Bay brand, Hikari changed the species of fish they are using. As long as it isn't the dominant part of their diet it will not make any issue, but here's an article you may find of interest. Just monitor ammonia closely, with these types of fish ammonia can spike really fast in a small qt setup, and it can prove deadly.

A Brief Word On Silversides…

Odds are, if you’re at all familiar with silversides, it’s from having fed their defrosted corpses to a larger carnivore. But while they may be little more

reefs.com

I just read this article. Thank you! I might go ahead and switch immediately since apparently I’m not even feeding a saltwater fish like I thought I was!

 

[lion king]

Thank so you much! I will switch my brand as soon as possible since I’m feeding all three preds this. Do you know anything about/ have experience with geometric morays? I can’t find anything online about them

No, like you mentioned, a rare find. I would treat like any small fang tooth eel, not knowing much about them, you'll have to monitor their aggression level. I will say this, fang tooth eels don't usually mix well with lionfish or anglers.

Found this article and thought it was interesting.

Foraging association of lionfish and moray eels in a Red Sea seagrass meadow - Coral Reefs

link.springer.com

 

[Gp!]

Found this article and thought it was interesting.

Foraging association of lionfish and moray eels in a Red Sea seagrass meadow - Coral Reefs

link.springer.com

Wow that is awesome

 

[PicassoClown04]

No, like you mentioned, a rare find. I would treat like any small fang tooth eel, not knowing much about them, you'll have to monitor their aggression level. I will say this, fang tooth eels don't usually mix well with lionfish or anglers.

Found this article and thought it was interesting.

Foraging association of lionfish and moray eels in a Red Sea seagrass meadow - Coral Reefs

link.springer.com

Wow that article looks awesome! Unfortunately I don’t have a volitian (nor do I plan on getting one. They are beautiful but grow to be too large for me to provide adequate housing) and I’m not sure how the fuzzy will act. I will read up on fang toothed eels, I wasn’t even sure if it was a fang tooth when I got it. Thank you so much!

 

[Dolphis]

Very cool crew! I did change my silverside recommendation to San Francisco Bay brand, Hikari changed the species of fish they are using. As long as it isn't the dominant part of their diet it will not make any issue, but here's an article you may find of interest. Just monitor ammonia closely, with these types of fish ammonia can spike really fast in a small qt setup, and it can prove deadly.

A Brief Word On Silversides…

Odds are, if you’re at all familiar with silversides, it’s from having fed their defrosted corpses to a larger carnivore. But while they may be little more

reefs.com

Quick question - having read the article about the Silversides, is there any difference in feeding real silversides and smelts or any of the other fish sold as silversides?
Are the silversides just more nutritious? Perhaps the other species carry some sort of disease?
TIA

 

[lion king]

Quick question - having read the article about the Silversides, is there any difference in feeding real silversides and smelts or any of the other fish sold as silversides?
Are the silversides just more nutritious? Perhaps the other species carry some sort of disease?
TIA

Yes there is a difference, the real silversides will contain the proper fat and protein profile as well as not contain thiaminese. Thiaminese will bind vitamin B1 and will prove deadly to many predatory fish like lions, anglers, and eels. Other species may not be as affected but still not ideal. The fat profile in some of the other fish is out of balance, too low in omega 3 and too high in omega 6; also too high in bad fats. The right fats are a very important and necessary part of a carnivore's diet. If these other fish are a dominant part of the diet it can greatly decrease lifespan. Many will also include shrimp as part of the diet, if the wrong silversides and shrimp make up the dominant diet, then that is a bad combo. Shrimp is also high in thiaminese. Some species can literally die within a year due to thiaminese poisoning and vitamin B1 defiencency.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Glad to see you kicking around here still! I always heard whispers of you being the Zoa ID girl - interesting to hear about your father's history with those gents - following!

 

[Dolphis]

Yes there is a difference, the real silversides will contain the proper fat and protein profile as well as not contain thiaminese. Thiaminese will bind vitamin B1 and will prove deadly to many predatory fish like lions, anglers, and eels. Other species may not be as affected but still not ideal. The fat profile in some of the other fish is out of balance, too low in omega 3 and too high in omega 6; also too high in bad fats. The right fats are a very important and necessary part of a carnivore's diet. If these other fish are a dominant part of the diet it can greatly decrease lifespan. Many will also include shrimp as part of the diet, if the wrong silversides and shrimp make up the dominant diet, then that is a bad combo. Shrimp is also high in thiaminese. Some species can literally die within a year due to thiaminese poisoning and vitamin B1 defiencency.

A cool!
I had no idea about that stuff - figured if it was sold for our pets, then it would be good for them.
I’m awaiting a dwarf lion fish and hope to have a blue ribbon eel in the future, so this is really informative, thank you!
Gonna have to find a local source for actually silversides, as what’s usually available are Ocean’s Direct smelts and a big bucket of silversides, tho I can’t the brand.

 

[PicassoClown04]

So, update. Neither the angler nor the eel has eaten yet in my care. I’ve tried frozen silversides, live mollies, live endlers, live goldfish (I know they’re bad but that’s what I saw the angler eat at the store), and live ghosties. The fuzzy is eating great but I’ve had him for a month already. Can anyone give me suggestions?? TIA!

 

[Aspect]

So, update. Neither the angler nor the eel has eaten yet in my care. I’ve tried frozen silversides, live mollies, live endlers, live goldfish (I know they’re bad but that’s what I saw the angler eat at the store), and live ghosties. The fuzzy is eating great but I’ve had him for a month already. Can anyone give me suggestions?? TIA!

Live ghost shrimp, frozen squid, calamari, shrimp, lobster tail soaked in selcon.

 

[PicassoClown04]

Live ghost shrimp, frozen squid, calamari, shrimp, lobster tail soaked in selcon.

Lobster tail?! Wow that one rich fish. The live ghosties did nothin for em, I was so sure that would do the trick. I can try the shrimp in selcon though thanks!

 

[PicassoClown04]

@lion king

 

[lion king]

Internal parasites is a real concern and pretty common for predatory fish like these. While I wouldn't hesitate to treat the eel with general cure, the angler is a bit more concerning. Live food is what will needed to initially trigger a feeding response, and you have offered a variety. Make sure they are not too large, although they could theoretically eat them, they may be a bit shy or intimated at first. Make sure the angler has ample time to set up to capture his prey; guppies or ghosties may be best for them. The eel should have no problem taking a live small fish or ghosties, and I would be quick to treat them with general cure. The treatment for an angler would need to be closely monitored, and for them I suggest splitting the dose into 3rds, administering it no more than 8 hrs between 3rds, and even every 4 hours would be fine, just be ready to do water changes and add carbon if a negative response

 

[lion king]

Two common reasons you don't see some species in captivity are; disease prone and/or feeding difficulties. With that eel I wouldn't be surprised if they don't commonly come in with internal parasites and/or have feeding difficulties. Offering appropriate live food is first, I have a rule, if my preds don't eat after 24 hrs, I immediately treat with general cure.

Anglers are pure ambush predators, so initial feeding can have some nuances. You must make sure the prey actually gets to a place where the angler can catch them, so ghosties are usually the easiest. You can use a clear feeding stick to herd the prey into a position where the angler can catch them. While anglers can eat items as large as themselves, a small one may be more intimidated to attempt a larger item, so make sure the prey is not too large. A healthy angler should be using your lure pretty quickly to attract food and moving around the tank to hunt for food.

All preds are usually starved so it really shouldn't take long for them to respond to live food if they are healthy.