Newbie Mistake Over stocked my tank way too quickly!

[Antaguana]

Thank you Antaguana, you provide very good quality feedback and I appreciate that.

I should warn you I am very new to this too so please be careful with what I say, I might be wrong (although I would expect someone to chime in and correct me if I am way off).

I have just done a lot of reading on this forum and a lot of watching videos and a lot of asking questions at me LFS .... Who now say, oh your back again already...

To be honest I don't mind if they find my many questions a bit annoying, as I see it it is their job (within reason) to help me. If I wanted cheap fish I would buy them online. I go to a LFS to get advice and to know the fish are well sourced and hope they have started the quarantine (or at least not given me a fish with every disease known to man)

I have certainly seen some contradictory information and has some information that I just can't see how it could possibly be right from people who absolutely should know better and in my opinion have a duty to answer me better than they have (I'm looking at you Aquasonic and not being able to tell me the correct use of your oodonex medication). Sometimes it just seems impossible to get an answer that make sense.

 

[Jekyl]

I still have a bunch of cleaner shrimp, crabs, snails, starfish and coral in the tank.. it only has one chromi fish that I’m trying to get out, so that I can leave it fishless for 10 + weeks.

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Antaguana]

I'm not sure on this one, but I think shrimp are pretty picky about ammonia too... If that is right then an ammonia spike killing all the fish but not affecting the shrimp would be odd. So that would suggest it's more likey disease that effect fish but not shrimp was your issue (although high ammonia can make disease worse and I would definitely want to work out why all your tests were zero, that it a red flag for me)

Hopefully someone can confirm if that is right.

 

[eliaslikesfish]

good move, you’re right.

Probably let's just move on hey?

 

[Lavey29]

To answer your original question

It's hard to know if you had ick or if it was an ammonia spike. I certainly don't know I'd have no idea.

30 dead fish (kind of regardless of what they dies from in the first place) would certainly result in some bad water quality (I wouldn't want to live in a house that had 30 people die in it last month). So changing the water and leaving the tank fallow to get rid of disease won't hurt.

In that time I would suggest read up on the forums and restart your bacterial colony. I'd say to to work out why all your results were zero. get some ammonia chloride and follow the instructions on that to dose the ammonia to a desired level (usually somewhere in the rejoin of 1-2ppm). If you follow those instructions you should be able to predict what ammonia reading you will get, then add the bacteria and you should see the ammonia come down over a few days to weeks (depending on many factors) and the nitrate go up.

If the LFS keeps saying you are getting 0ppm ammonia just put some ammonia chloride and some water in a clean bucket (so you know there is ammonia and there is no bacteria to remove it) and then get them to test that .. if they still say it's zero then you REALLY need to find a new LFS cos they either don't Know how to use the test kit or they are lying to you to sell you more fish.

Ich doesn't wipe out fish that fast. It's a progressive disease that gets worse over time for the fish. This was either 02 deprivation especially if the fish died overnight which is when 02 levels drop in the reef tank or a disease such as velvet.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

To answer your original question

It's hard to know if you had ick or if it was an ammonia spike. I certainly don't know I'd have no idea.

30 dead fish (kind of regardless of what they dies from in the first place) would certainly result in some bad water quality (I wouldn't want to live in a house that had 30 people die in it last month). So changing the water and leaving the tank fallow to get rid of disease won't hurt.

In that time I would suggest read up on the forums and restart your bacterial colony. I'd say to to work out why all your results were zero. get some ammonia chloride and follow the instructions on that to dose the ammonia to a desired level (usually somewhere in the rejoin of 1-2ppm). If you follow those instructions you should be able to predict what ammonia reading you will get, then add the bacteria and you should see the ammonia come down over a few days to weeks (depending on many factors) and the nitrate go up.

If the LFS keeps saying you are getting 0ppm ammonia just put some ammonia chloride and some water in a clean bucket (so you know there is ammonia and there is no bacteria to remove it) and then get them to test that .. if they still say it's zero then you REALLY need to find a new LFS cos they either don't Know how to use the test kit or they are lying to you to sell you more fish.

To answer your original question

It's hard to know if you had ick or if it was an ammonia spike. I certainly don't know I'd have no idea.

30 dead fish (kind of regardless of what they dies from in the first place) would certainly result in some bad water quality (I wouldn't want to live in a house that had 30 people die in it last month). So changing the water and leaving the tank fallow to get rid of disease won't hurt.

In that time I would suggest read up on the forums and restart your bacterial colony. I'd say to to work out why all your results were zero. get some ammonia chloride and follow the instructions on that to dose the ammonia to a desired level (usually somewhere in the rejoin of 1-2ppm). If you follow those instructions you should be able to predict what ammonia reading you will get, then add the bacteria and you should see the ammonia come down over a few days to weeks (depending on many factors) and the nitrate go up.

If the LFS keeps saying you are getting 0ppm ammonia just put some ammonia chloride and some water in a clean bucket (so you know there is ammonia and there is no bacteria to remove it) and then get them to test that .. if they still say it's zero then you REALLY need to find a new LFS cos they either don't Know how to use the test kit or they are lying to you to sell you more fish.

The LFS did perform a couple of water changes during that period. Here is a pic of my tank at that time. Everything seemed to look good and it didn’t seem like there was an abundance of fish dying.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

The LFS did perform a couple of water changes during that period. Here is a pic of my tank at that time. Everything seemed to look good and it didn’t seem like there was an abundance of fish dying.

This is it now with just coral & shrimp

 

[steveschuerger]

1 Watchman goby

1 Flame angel

1 six line wrasse p

2 Clownfish

2 fire fish

4 cleaner shrimp

2 cardinal fish

1 dotty back

1 swallow tail angel

1 blue trigger (small)

1 regal tang (small)

1 scopa tang (small)

1 naso tang

5 blue damsels

1 coral beauty

1 Fox face

1 yellow wrasse

That’s way too many fish in that small a tank. Objectively speaking. I have a 90 gallon and I feel like I’m pushing it with 13 mostly smaller fish. It took me about 2 ½ yrs to get there. The fish I circled in red are either too big or just plain aggressive . The coral beauty and flame angels are 50/50 at best for a tank with coral. If you’re doing a fowler that’s ok. I’d probably do a max of 15 fish , mostly smaller if I had that size tank. And plenty of rockwork for territory division/hiding spots.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

That’s way too many fish in that small a tank. Objectively speaking. I have a 90 gallon and I feel like I’m pushing it with 13 mostly smaller fish. It took me about 2 ½ yrs to get there. The fish I circled in red are either too big or just plain aggressive . The coral beauty and flame angels are 50/50 at best for a tank with coral. If you’re doing a fowler that’s ok. I’d probably do a max of 15 fish , mostly smaller if I had that size tank. And plenty of rockwork for territory division/hiding spots.

These are pics of the fish tank .. it has plenty of rock with hiding spots. I will probably stick with a couple of clownfish, a swallow tail, regal & a gem tang and that’s probably it. I will purchase them already quarantined.

 

[twentyleagues]

I find it all a little strange but, we are not getting the whole picture. For the fish to die from ammonia but loose no inverts is strange, I think disease. For the fish to die from low O2 with no invert loss also seems strange, Sounds like disease. For all the fish to die in a short time seems like it could be anything, without more info like videos or pics of dying fish no way to tell. Follow proper fallow protocol. For the inverts to continue to live I think tank is cycled.

 

[randomfishdude]

These are pics of the fish tank .. it has plenty of rock with hiding spots. I will probably stick with a couple of clownfish, a swallow tail, regal & a gem tang and that’s probably it. I will purchase them already quarantined.

it could use more hiding spots...especially for 30 fish. just coming from me. i have way more than that in my 90 for my 8 fish.

I should warn you I am very new to this too so please be careful with what I say, I might be wrong (although I would expect someone to chime in and correct me if I am way off).

you are spot on. writing some very informational stuff for being new. i struggle to write stuff very long and informational.

 

[TL1]

Nice tank!

FWIW: I lost near the entirety of my fish at around the 1-year mark to which I suspect was velvet. Three or four fish survived. I left them in there for 6 weeks or so before adding any more fish. I slowly started to rebuild. I started with some of the cheaper fish I knew I wanted to keep, one or two at a time every few weeks. No QT, because it's too much of a pain. No disease issues at that point, so I put my name on some of the more expensive fish at my LFS and observed over a week or two and took them home. Still no issues. Of course, all of that was a gamble, and a gamble that I was willing to take. Once at ~90% stocked and healthy, I started only purchasing pre QT'd from drreefsquarantinedfish.com <-- highly recommend.

That's what worked for me with the least amount of effort and acceptance of the risk I was taking. As you learn more and more, think about what risks you're willing to live with and what you want out of this hobby.

^my two cents... worth what you're paying for it.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Nice tank!

FWIW: I lost near the entirety of my fish at around the 1-year mark to which I suspect was velvet. Three or four fish survived. I left them in there for 6 weeks or so before adding any more fish. I slowly started to rebuild. I started with some of the cheaper fish I knew I wanted to keep, one or two at a time every few weeks. No QT, because it's too much of a pain. No disease issues at that point, so I put my name on some of the more expensive fish at my LFS and observed over a week or two and took them home. Still no issues. Of course, all of that was a gamble, and a gamble that I was willing to take. Once at ~90% stocked and healthy, I started only purchasing pre QT'd from drreefsquarantinedfish.com <-- highly recommend.

That's what worked for me with the least amount of effort and acceptance of the risk I was taking. As you learn more and more, think about what risks you're willing to live with and what you want out of this hobby.

^my two cents... worth what you're paying for it.

I like your approach. I’m pretty much in the same boat. The reason I started this thread was because I lost just about all of the fish, except for one chromi fish that I can’t get out to leave the tank fallow for a couple of months. I don’t want to start buying fish and suddenly the same thing happens again and they get ich. Your plan sounds good though, just add a couple at a time and hope for the best and preferably purchase quarantine fish and add the more fragile and expensive ones at the end.

 

[twentyleagues]

I like your approach. I’m pretty much in the same boat. The reason I started this thread was because I lost just about all of the fish, except for one chromi fish that I can’t get out to leave the tank fallow for a couple of months. I don’t want to start buying fish and suddenly the same thing happens again and they get ich. Your plan sounds good though, just add a couple at a time and hope for the best and preferably purchase quarantine fish and add the more fragile and expensive ones at the end.

Thats a plan risky but a plan. You need to go fallow first though. Get that fish out. Dont feed for a day or two get a fish trap and bait it. The fish will go in to get the food when its hungry.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Thats a plan risky but a plan. You need to go fallow first though. Get that fish out. Dont feed for a day or two get a fish trap and bait it. The fish will go in to get the food when its hungry.

I tried the pricey trap and it doesn’t work.. the chromi fish won’t go anywhere near it and when I try adding food to it it eventually comes out and the fish then eats it.. ‍

 

[twentyleagues]

I tried the pricey trap and it doesn’t work.. the chromi fish won’t go anywhere near it and when I try adding food to it it eventually comes out and the fish then eats it.. ‍

Well only option is to take away its hiding spots then. IMO this was 100% disease. What disease? I dont know. Your inverts are fine high ammonia would take them out too. That fish remains a vector even if it doesnt succumb to the illness it can still carry it. It must be removed to give new fish a chance once the fallow period is over.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

To do that it would require me to remove all of the rockwork, coral and invertebrates & it’s not a small tank. I will just have to wait and maybe follow TL1’s advice and add a couple quarantined fish at a time and hope for the best.

 

[twentyleagues]

To do that it would require me to remove all of the rockwork, coral and invertebrates & it’s not a small tank. I will just have to wait and maybe follow TL1’s advice and add a couple quarantined fish at a time and hope for the best.

Oh Ok. Yeah QT'd fish are resistant to whatever killed all your fish in your tank so it should be fine! I wouldnt worry about it at all.

Good luck!

 

[Cell]

May want to reassess risking all future fish vs 1 chromis.

 

[twentyleagues]

Going back to what I have said and what others including @Cell recently said. Get the chromis out now it sucks you have to tear apart the tank to do it. I am sure ( I think) you dont want to go through this again. Right?