Nitrates still 160 ppm

[newjack0000]

CC is a hit and miss. sometimes it does good sometimes it does this. We already ruled out the test kit If you read it all. Theres nothing dead. Something is decaying and the only other thing I can think of is something in the CC

 

[Pete polyp]

From what I understand the only filtration in your tank is the rock, and that alone won't cut it. You have no livestock, so remove the crushed coral substrate and replace it with 4" of aragonite sand. Live rock will break down nutrients but its not very efficient at removing nitrates. A deep sand bed will give a place with no flow for the bacteria to grow. These bacteria need an anaerobic zone to colonize and there's not much in live rock. You have no livestock, so changing out the substrate all at once is the best idea. If you do it in sections it will in turn only take longer to see results.

 

[Pete polyp]

I may do that. Live sand or Bagged sand? The only thing they have at LFS is bagged sand. They have a tank of live rock, but no live sand.

I have had great success using aragalive and ocean direct. The only issue I could see is that both of these contain nutrients which kick off your cycle. In your case it may be best to use dry caribsea aragonite sand. Just remember to rinse very well before adding it to the tank. It would also be a good time to remove all the rock long enough to drain the tank and do a 100% water change. You can use the old water to rinse the sand.

 

[gemini9]

Well the dry rock that's in there was from BRS. The pukani and the Fiji was pretty dirty. I rinsed it off pretty well but there was still some stuff on it when I put it in the tank. The first order I bought was on 3/24 and the second batch I bought from them was on 4/7. At the start of my setup, I also bought 3 pounds of live rock at LFS. Gives me a total of 28 pounds in my 30 gallon tank. Give a few days for delivery, I placed it in the tank when it arrived. Maybe it's possible the Dry rock still contains die off? I tested my ph and my ph had dropped to 8.0 or 7.8ish. Would that have anything to do with it? I had to ad some API Proper ph 8.2 to bring it back up. And it seems after I added the API Proper ph 8.2 to the tank, the flatworms miraculously re-appeared over night. My copepods, however, I don't know WHAT happened to them. I used to have hundreds of them swimming around but soon as the diatoms started, they vanished. Changing HOB filters every 2 weeks. Should I change them more often? In the process of trying to find a skimmer that will fit my tank (I only have 3" clearance) and hopefully that will help.

 

[gemini9]

I have had great success using aragalive and ocean direct. The only issue I could see is that both of these contain nutrients which kick off your cycle. In your case it may be best to use dry caribsea aragonite sand. Just remember to rinse very well before adding it to the tank. It would also be a good time to remove all the rock long enough to drain the tank and do a 100% water change. You can use the old water to rinse the sand.

Sounds like an idea. I would also like to add a skimmer if I can find one to fit the tank.

So here's what I've got then.
1. Do a 100% water change.
When doing this, should I remove all the live rock and put it in a bucket or two to keep it wet? Or will it be okay in the 20 minutes or so it takes to replenish the water?
2. Replace CC with Aragonite sand.
This would have to be dry sand. As mentioned, my LFS doesn't sell live sand. I'll rinse it in a bucket of RODI water... this ok?
So adding dry sand, how will that affect my cycle?
3. Put on a skimmer.
I only have 3 inches of clearance from the tank to the wall. Is there a skimmer that will fit?
I have no sump yet. Will be a long time before I do.

Here's my main concern. Since I have dry rock in here, and there's the possibility of there still being some die off on it, when I do my large water change, how do I know the die off on the dry rock won't continue to raise my nitrates? How long will it take for this dry rock to clean itself up?

 

[Pete polyp]

Your Ph didn't cause this. I doubt the brs rock had any die off because they soak it in acid which removed anything. The filter pad in the hob does not remove nitrates. As of right now you really have no efficient way to remove nitrate. Since you have no sump a dsb is the best option. I have a 29 with a 4" dsb, hob filter, powerheads. I do in fact have a nitrate problem though, lack of nitrate. I have to feed my tank 5+ times a day to get 1ppm. And not just a flake here and there either. I feed a fingernail sized piece of rods 5-8 times a day, alternate reef roids and coral frenzy twice a night (0.7 ml each feeding) my opinion with your setup is to put a deep sand bed of medium grade sand and let it do its thing.

This is my 29. Almost 18 months, always dsb and always hardly ever any nitrate

 

[newjack0000]

I don't like the 100% water change idea. There's not a lot but still some good benefitual bacteria in the water Colum. I
would do more like
50% every 3 days and even that's a bit much.

 

[Pete polyp]

Sounds like an idea. I would also like to add a skimmer if I can find one to fit the tank.

So here's what I've got then.
1. Do a 100% water change.
When doing this, should I remove all the live rock and put it in a bucket or two to keep it wet? Or will it be okay in the 20 minutes or so it takes to replenish the water?
2. Replace CC with Aragonite sand.
This would have to be dry sand. As mentioned, my LFS doesn't sell live sand. I'll rinse it in a bucket of RODI water... this ok?
So adding dry sand, how will that affect my cycle?
3. Put on a skimmer.
I only have 3 inches of clearance from the tank to the wall. Is there a skimmer that will fit?
I have no sump yet. Will be a long time before I do.

Here's my main concern. Since I have dry rock in here, and there's the possibility of there still being some die off on it, when I do my large water change, how do I know the die off on the dry rock won't continue to raise my nitrates? How long will it take for this dry rock to clean itself up?

Yes dry aragonite sand will be just fine. Make sure its aragonite sand and not silica play sand. If its dry sand it should not effect your cycle too badly. You may see a tiny bit of ammonia for a few days. It will take around a month for it to show a significant change in your nitrates since the bacteria will need time to colonize. I would think putting your tank a month behind would be far better than battling nitrate for a long time.

 

[Pete polyp]

Skimming will remove the protein before it can be processed by any bacteria, and this method is effective (for the most part). What it can do is cause you to have little beneficial bacteria in the tank because its practically starved. What happens when a coral dies? Or a snail, hermit, fish etc? Without the use of a sump I would prefer having a strong biosystem that can effectively remove nutrients over mechanical filtration. If you had a sump you could use a skimmer and dedicate part of the sump to a refugium and have macroalgae. This way there's a fall back if you have a spike or equipment failure.

 

[gemini9]

The 100% water change did scare me a bit to be honest. lol I think I will go with the 50% water change idea. I have been doing 20% changes every 4-5 days and it's not enough obviously. Can someone please advise on my skimmer situation? I want a HOB skimmer but I only have 3 inches clearance from my tank to the wall. I don't really want to wait another month lol It's been over a month already.

 

[gemini9]

I went to the LFS and took a water sample for them to test and they tested 80ppm compared to my 160 ppm. He said I may have been reading the results in darker light conditions. But he sold me this bottle of "Instant Ocean Natural Nitrate Reducer" that is supposed to get my nitrates under control. I initially set up my tank using spring water. Using rodi now. I was curios and tested a bit of that spring water I got for the tank initially, and the results of that test yielded hardly no ammonia and about 10-20ppm nitrates so the only thing it leaves is the dry rock I'd put in the aquarium. It must have been festering with die off. BRS stated they get their pukani, fiji and tonga shelf straight from the ocean and they do not clean it well. There is always die off on their rock. This must be where my nitrates are coming from. So I guess the only way to get these nitrates down is PWC and a skimmer to prevent further nitrates.

I may try this Instant Ocean Natural Nitrate Reducer to get my levels down so I can get a CUC in there to start taking care of these diatoms. Maybe? What say you all?

 

[icsparks]

An easy test of the CC is to take some out of the tank rinse it off and place it in a bucket of fresh made salk water with flow after a few days test for nitrates. How high did the ammonia and nitrites get during the cycle. I have see people over do it and have a very high ammonia spike during a cycle and this will = high nitrates in the end. I have seen a many times a tank with a nitrate of 40 get a 50% water change and only knock them down to 30 so it does take quite a bit to remove them over time with water changes. If your ammonia didnt spike high then something else is going on. My BRS rock was fine but did have a little phosphate but nothing that the GFO can't take out.

 

[gemini9]

I never noticed a high ammonia spike. I did, however, notice a spike in the nitrites off the charts and came down to 0.

 

[fishroomlady]

I went to the LFS and took a water sample for them to test and they tested 80ppm compared to my 160 ppm. He said I may have been reading the results in darker light conditions. But he sold me this bottle of "Instant Ocean Natural Nitrate Reducer" that is supposed to get my nitrates under control. I initially set up my tank using spring water. Using rodi now. I was curios and tested a bit of that spring water I got for the tank initially, and the results of that test yielded hardly no ammonia and about 10-20ppm nitrates so the only thing it leaves is the dry rock I'd put in the aquarium. It must have been festering with die off. BRS stated they get their pukani, fiji and tonga shelf straight from the ocean and they do not clean it well. There is always die off on their rock. This must be where my nitrates are coming from. So I guess the only way to get these nitrates down is PWC and a skimmer to prevent further nitrates.

I may try this Instant Ocean Natural Nitrate Reducer to get my levels down so I can get a CUC in there to start taking care of these diatoms. Maybe? What say you all?

can you clarify what PWC is? I think a skimmer and continuing with water changes is what you need to do. I would try to do a 50% water change and that should bring your nitrates down 50% which would be at a reasonable level. Get a CUC, and get your skimmer going.

 

[gemini9]

Pwc. Partial water change. Sorry. theres a problem ive run into with a skimmer. I only have 3 inches of clearance from the back of my tank to the wall and skimmers arw all 3.5 inches wide. Eek. Beginners mistake... tank is too close tk the wall to fit a skimmer.

 

[newjack0000]

please don't use chems like this.. Tanks are like addicts. When you use a chem it temporary solves the issue(s) Then the chem wears off and the tank is even worse so you use more chems and so on and so on. The key is to find the problem and remove it not drug it,

 

[PaulKreider]

You can scoot the stand that the tank is on slowly, I've done it with my 55gal on wood and carpet floors. Just be smooth, slow and steady and youl be fine.

Now onto the nitrates. I think you've been getting a lot of mixed information and a bit over overload from everyone having their own opinions.

Crushed coral isn't youre problem. Plain and simple. The reason CC Is a nitrate problem is after months and years of keeping fish, detritus and fish waste collect and build up in the CC. You havn't had fish, so this problem is not affecting you.

Test kit- Could be fault, but make sure you pay attention to the directions 100%, if it says shake for a minute, don't shake for 50seconds, shake it for the whole 60 seconds. API test kits are hit or miss but you ALWAYS have to follow the instructions to the T.

Dry rock- is exactly that, dry. No living organisms, no bacteria, no nitrates, nothing. Just rock. Not a problem.

Live Rock- If you ordered your live rock online and did not cycle it, this is probably your problem. Live rock will experience a die-off while shipping and needs to be cured for upto a month to avoid a nitrate factory in your tank.

Filtration- I would step it upto a skimmer, but a HOB is not necessarily your nitrate problem right now. Throw a bag of carbon in the floss section and just run that in there since you have no use for floss at the moment. (No livestock= no detritus)


My thoughts: Your system has not had enough time to produce enough beneficial nitrifying bacteria. By using only 2 pounds of live rock the bacteria need longer to build up. I would add a bottle of nitrifying bacteria. Keep doing small water changes and wait a week or two and you should be fine.

 

[SABOB]

Excellent reply PaulKreider

 

[gemini9]

The test kit is api and I follow the directions well. Made sure of that. The dry rock I ordered did have allot of dead stuff. I even found a dead crab swirling around in the tank after a few days. When I first set the tank I added some Nutrafin Cycle to the system as recommended by lfs. Should I buy more live rock? Got my 3 pounds from lfs.

 

[PaulKreider]

The crab could of been a hitchhiker on the liverock that you got, and simply died off. Could you post a picture of the tank? Pictures are worth a thousand words!