Nutrient Control...

[Salt1972]

A lot of you make nutrient control look easy. I receive a little jab every time I see someone post about dosing nitrates and phosphates... good grief!

My daughter and I ran a 55g for 4+ years before starting a 125g mixed reef last September. The 55 was always plagued with 30-50ppm nitrates and elevated phosphates. We learned the sources included older, deep substrate, poor skimming, and no other nutrient export methods.

When we started our 125g, we knew we wanted to explore SPS corals in addition to the many LPS, fish, and inverts. So, we knew we needed to control nutrients with a plan. In addition to 20% water changes every 2 weeks, we have strong skimmers and started a refugium with chaeto and caleurpa macro algaes under a Kessil H80 running 22 hours / day. The refugium has helped us maintain nutrients, but, today, they were higher than in weeks past. Nitrates = 10ppm and Phosphates .107ppm. Nothing horrible, but still higher than we'd like. The macro algae is growing, but slowly. I don't feel like we're maximizing the potential there. I increased the flow and made it indirect in an effort to spread out the surface area of the algae. In the past, the flow pushed it all to 1 corner. What else can we do to maximize nutrient uptake in the refugium?

Additional options:

• Algae Turf Scrubber - pros - almost all users report undetectable nutrients. con - we have a purple tang that LOVES the caleurpa. If the ATS comes online, it would likely starve out the caleurpa.
• Vinegar Dosing - this may be a contender. I think it addresses nitrates more than phosphates. Are there other cons?
• GFO - messy, maintenance intensive, and costly.

Fish:

• 11 Green Chromis
• 2 Ocellaris Clowns
• 1 Purple Tang

Inverts:

• 1 Sally Lightfoot Crab
• 3 Peppermint Shrimp
• 1 Blood Shrimp
• 1 Scarlett Cleaner Shrimp
• 1 Pistol Shrimp
• 2 Emerald Crabs

Corals:

• Large Duncan colony
• Large Frogspawn colony
• GSP
• Neon Torch
• Red Setosa frag
• Rainbow Plays
• Sunset Monti frag
• Hawkins Enchinata frag
• Cali Tort frag
• Cyphastrea frag
• Laptastrea frag
• Red Dragon frag
• Blastos
• Maze brain

Feeding:

• Freeze Dried Mysis in auto feeder 1x per day. ~ 1/2 tsp
• Mix Hikari Marine S & New Life Spectrum Thera A+ pellets in auto feeder 1x/ day. ~ 1/4 tsp
• 1 cube frozen mysis + 1 cube Reef Frenzy + Reef Chili - 2x per week

What do you guys recommend? Thanks for your help!

 

[Brew12]

A lot of you make nutrient control look easy. I receive a little jab every time I see someone post about dosing nitrates and phosphates... good grief!

My daughter and I ran a 55g for 4+ years before starting a 125g mixed reef last September. The 55 was always plagued with 30-50ppm nitrates and elevated phosphates. We learned the sources included older, deep substrate, poor skimming, and no other nutrient export methods.

When we started our 125g, we knew we wanted to explore SPS corals in addition to the many LPS, fish, and inverts. So, we knew we needed to control nutrients with a plan. In addition to 20% water changes every 2 weeks, we have strong skimmers and started a refugium with chaeto and caleurpa macro algaes under a Kessil H80 running 22 hours / day. The refugium has helped us maintain nutrients, but, today, they were higher than in weeks past. Nitrates = 10ppm and Phosphates .107ppm. Nothing horrible, but still higher than we'd like. The macro algae is growing, but slowly. I don't feel like we're maximizing the potential there. I increased the flow and made it indirect in an effort to spread out the surface area of the algae. In the past, the flow pushed it all to 1 corner. What else can we do to maximize nutrient uptake in the refugium?

Additional options:

• Algae Turf Scrubber - pros - almost all users report undetectable nutrients. con - we have a purple tang that LOVES the caleurpa. If the ATS comes online, it would likely starve out the caleurpa.
• Vinegar Dosing - this may be a contender. I think it addresses nitrates more than phosphates. Are there other cons?
• GFO - messy, maintenance intensive, and costly.

Fish:

• 11 Green Chromis
• 2 Ocellaris Clowns
• 1 Purple Tang

Inverts:

• 1 Sally Lightfoot Crab
• 3 Peppermint Shrimp
• 1 Blood Shrimp
• 1 Scarlett Cleaner Shrimp
• 1 Pistol Shrimp
• 2 Emerald Crabs

Corals:

• Large Duncan colony
• Large Frogspawn colony
• GSP
• Neon Torch
• Red Setosa frag
• Rainbow Plays
• Sunset Monti frag
• Hawkins Enchinata frag
• Cali Tort frag
• Cyphastrea frag
• Laptastrea frag
• Red Dragon frag
• Blastos
• Maze brain

Feeding:

• Freeze Dried Mysis in auto feeder 1x per day. ~ 1/2 tsp
• Mix Hikari Marine S & New Life Spectrum Thera A+ pellets in auto feeder 1x/ day. ~ 1/4 tsp
• 1 cube frozen mysis + 1 cube Reef Frenzy + Reef Chili - 2x per week

What do you guys recommend? Thanks for your help!

I recommend relaxing and enjoying your system without stressing about the nutrient levels. There are some high end SPS growers that keep nitrates between 20ppm and 30ppm. As long as PO4 is less than 0.2ppm you should be just fine. Another benefit is that having a reasonable amount of both nutrients makes it less likely to have cyano or dino issues.

My opinion... your nutrients are fine!

 

[Trevor40]

What light are you running over the macro algae? If you have a good strong light then you will harvest more algae to get the nutrients down more. Are you running the refugium light reverse to your main light?

 

[zachxlutz]

Your numbers are very close to my target numbers.... I'm one of those who has to dose to keep nutrients in my tank.

I'd consider dosing some Iron to your system and see if that helps your macros take off. If they are growth limited by anything, it's likely that in your system. @Randy Holmes-Farley recommends dosing Fe. Scroll down to the section regarding Iron and you can read a little more about it.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

What is wrong with your nutrient levels? Are you experiencing nuisance algae problems or poor animal health? These are really the only reasons to control nutrients more tightly than you are doing now.

The reefers who dose nitrates and phosphates to increase nutrient levels often target levels around that of your system. In other words, if another reefer had your tank and the nutrients were any lower, they might consider dosing depending on their goals and livestock.

If nothing's wrong, don't worry about the numbers. Your nutrient levels are fine.

 

[cumbeje]

I agree I don't think anything is wrong with your nitrates and phosphates are on the higher side for SPS. You can easily bring that down with a little GFO.

 

[cumbeje]

I agree I don't think anything is wrong with your nitrates and phosphates are on the higher side for SPS. You can easily bring that down with a little GFO.

 

[Salt1972]

What light are you running over the macro algae? If you have a good strong light then you will harvest more algae to get the nutrients down more. Are you running the refugium light reverse to your main light?

We run a Kessil H80 22 hours a day.

 

[dansreef]

I agree with those prior... Unless you have nuisance algae... or your corals aren't thriving... I wouldn't worry about things. I would relax and enjoy your tank....

 

[zachxlutz]

We run a Kessil H80 22 hours a day.

I can’t remember when I saw this and I may be misremembering but Ryan at BRS said in one of their videos on refugiums that they had better performance with chaeto growth running their lights on a more traditional light cycle. Something like 12-14 hours. I don’t recall the video, and I really hope I’m not spreading misinformation.

 

[Trevor40]

I can’t remember when I saw this and I may be misremembering but Ryan at BRS said in one of their videos on refugiums that they had better performance with chaeto growth running their lights on a more traditional light cycle. Something like 12-14 hours. I don’t recall the video, and I really hope I’m not spreading misinformation.

With that strong of a light you shouldn’t need more that 12 hours/day. Try adding different types of macro algae.

 

[Salt1972]

Your numbers are very close to my target numbers.... I'm one of those who has to dose to keep nutrients in my tank.

I'd consider dosing some Iron to your system and see if that helps your macros take off. If they are growth limited by anything, it's likely that in your system. @Randy Holmes-Farley recommends dosing Fe. Scroll down to the section regarding Iron and you can read a little more about it.

Zach- We tried dosing Iron using Randy's method -- 1 Fergon tablet dissolved in 30mL of RO/DI. We dosed 2mL every 3rd day for 10 days (6mL total). The caleurpa TOOK OFF. WOW. Nitrates went down to 3ppm, PO4 remained at .12, and some strange cyano like growth appeared all over rock work and substrate. The LPS and SPS receded and everything looked very unhappy. We ceased iron dosing and did a 30g water change (125g system). Despite being advised to take numerous actions involving additives and chemicals, we decided to take things slowly. It's taken about 2-3 weeks to right the system. All corals are happy and the cyano / algae growth has stopped.

I don't know enough about the chemistry to associate the issue with iron dosing, coincidence, or an imbalance imposed by changing the nitrate parameter. I'm both grateful and impressed with the system's ability to right itself. It just goes to reinforce that the best we can do is provide the right environment, but nature is what really does the work.

The caleurpa continues to thrive and our PO4 continues to hover just over .1. Today is water change day. I think if the testing reveals consistent PO4 results, we'll start a small amount of GFO in a bag in the sump in an effort to target .03 PO4.

 

[DraggingTail]

Interesting

 

[Chiefmaster30]

I recommend relaxing and enjoying your system without stressing about the nutrient levels. There are some high end SPS growers that keep nitrates between 20ppm and 30ppm. As long as PO4 is less than 0.2ppm you should be just fine. Another benefit is that having a reasonable amount of both nutrients makes it less likely to have cyano or dino issues.

My opinion... your nutrients are fine!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, this is an old thread and the OP has not been on in more than a year.