% of fish that survive a year?

[ca1ore]

I 've been having a debate with a friend of mine about what percentage of marine fish survive to a year in peoples tanks (all tanks, not just R2R members). Would be interested in thoughtful views, particularly from those that do reef tank maintenance. I do not wish to 'lead the witness' so shall reserve my own view.

 

[Mr. Limpid]

This hobby gets enough bad press, please don't ask us to add to it. I rather talk about success and how to improve the chances. I have pair clowns currently that have lived 10 years and had a Falcula Butterfly live 12 years. Thank You

 

[redfishbluefish]

I've got to believe the number is fairly low. My reasoning is the high turnover in my local LFS. I receive weekly "new arrivals," and someone must be buying them.

With my tank, my last visit to my LFS was in January looking for a new tank. I've got to scratch my head on the last fish I purchased. However, I have had two catastrophes with fish deaths....a tank crash, and putting a blue velvet damsel in the tank...SOB killed three fish....no more damsels for me (other than clowns).

 

[Greybeard]

Interesting question.

I'm just a hobbiest... but I've been in the game for a long time. I figure, over the course of a couple of decades, that 75 to 80% of my own fishes have lived at least a year. That's with a fairly conscientious, relatively knowledgeable aquarist, and yeah, I still figure I loose 20 or 25% of my fish purchases inside of a year. Nearly all of those losses are within the first few weeks. Honestly, if a fish settles in and makes it through the first month in my tank, their chances are pretty darned good. I got back into the hobby about 3 years ago now, and still have two of the first three fishes I purchased (Smith's blenny and ORA clowns). Lost the other clown when he jumped.

If you're not limiting things to marine, I'd suspect the losses are way higher than that. Lots of 1st time freshwater keepers that simply don't know what they're doing loose a _lot_ of fish. New marine aquarists are probably a bit lower in losses... more expensive fish, have to be at least a little more interested to invest in marine aquarium. By the time you get to reefkeepers, a small subset of marine aquarists, I'd guess the losses are quite a bit lower... approaching my own 20-25%

Add in the very high incident rate of infection on wild captured fishes... I'd be willing to bet the loss rate before they even reach our tanks is astronomical.

Now... one thing to remember, while collecting your answers. What's the survival rate of wild fishes over their first year? There is a reason why most fishes have evolved a broadcast spawning technique, that can involve many thousands of eggs at a time. Survival to adulthood is very rare. Even oddball fishes... Seahorses, for instance, the female passes her eggs to the male for incubation and protection, so that she can start on developing the next clutch of eggs. A healthy pair can produce a LOT of young, in a hurry.

 

[revhtree]

Personally I would think mine are under 50% easy. Probably around 25-30%.

 

[OriginalUserName]

Saltwater fish? If you are looking at point of purchase by the customer I'd say it's fairly high. Most people that are willing to try saltwater aren't incompetent enough to kill most of their fish. 50%? For fish I've owned personally I think I only had 2 that didn't last a year out of 10 total. Include FW in that and you are probably seeing pretty low numbers for the hobby in general. That includes fish such as mollies and goldfish that are produced on mass scales though.

I'll say one thing though, fish that are collected for food have a 0% survival rate.

 

[ca1ore]

This hobby gets enough bad press, please don't ask us to add to it. I rather talk about success and how to improve the chances. I have pair clowns currently that have lived 10 years and had a Falcula Butterfly live 12 years. Thank You

Why would you perceive my question as 'bad press' ..... unless of course you think the number is really low LOL. Don't you think an important way to improve success is to know why fish die? You're welcome!

 

[ca1ore]

Saltwater fish? If you are looking at point of purchase by the customer I'd say it's fairly high. Most people that are willing to try saltwater aren't incompetent enough to kill most of their fish. 50%? Include FW in that and you are probably seeing pretty low numbers. That includes fish such as mollies and goldfish that are produced on mass scales though.

I'll say one thing though, fish that are collected for food have a 0% survival rate.

Yes, saltwater fish. Made the same point about the survival rate of fishing in another thread .......

 

[ca1ore]

Now... one thing to remember, while collecting your answers. What's the survival rate of wild fishes over their first year? There is a reason why most fishes have evolved a broadcast spawning technique, that can involve many thousands of eggs at a time. Survival to adulthood is very rare. Even oddball fishes... Seahorses, for instance, the female passes her eggs to the male for incubation and protection, so that she can start on developing the next clutch of eggs. A healthy pair can produce a LOT of young, in a hurry.

Yes, well aware; but a point well made.

 

[Pmj]

Too bad you asked "% of fish that survive a year" instead of "average fish lifespan", @Paul B could have really upped the ol' average.

 

[Mr. Limpid]

Why would you perceive my question as 'bad press' ..... unless of course you think the number is really low LOL. You're welcome!

Yes I do believe the number is very low. I'm one of those that go weekly to my LFS to see what came in. I see people that purchase fish that will no way fit in my 180gal tank and I her them say that they have 55 gal tank. The worst was just last week. I've seen a Midnight Parrot fish at my LFS and guy was going to buy it, I had to ask what size tank he had, it was 125 gal. After I told him this fish can grow up to 2 feet he didn't buy it. The person selling it didn't ask or say anything.

 

[Greybeard]

...Midnight Parrot fish at my LFS and guy was going to buy it, I had to ask what size tank he had, it was 125 gal. After I told him this fish can grow up to 2 feet he didn't buy it. The person selling it didn't ask or say anything.

Not uncommon, and one of the reasons why I'm particular about the LFS's I support.

Decades ago, I killed the sale of a blue ring octopus to the mother of a 12 year old kid... Idiot manning the shop never said a word about it being poisonous, or even how inappropriate it was for a 1st time fish keeper and their newly cycled 20 gallon aquarium. Never darkened their door again. Happily, they closed not long after. Did the same to a guy that was trying to sell a baby green anaconda to a kid looking to buy his first snake. Pet shops that value the sale above the health of the animal, or even the customer, are far too common.

 

[rkpetersen]

Add in the very high incident rate of infection on wild captured fishes... I'd be willing to bet the loss rate before they even reach our tanks is astronomical.

This. This is what people really don't want to talk about. As a diver and advocate for preserving wild oceans, I sometimes feel bad about this. And honestly, I'm not even sure I'd have gotten back into the hobby at all, except for the fact that corals reefs worldwide are doomed no matter what the human race does at this point (and let's face it, there won't be much done to specifically protect the oceans anyway.) When the coral reefs go, virtually all of the fish that we collect and display go as well; they aren't generally pelagic! At some point, captive specimens may be all that's left of many species, so we'd better get good at keeping them alive and healthy.

To answer the question, though: In the last year, I've lost 9 of 50 purchased fish. Every single one of them made me miserable for days.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

it is tragically high. When you factor in the fish that dont make it to the wholesalers.. it is honestly heartbreaking and makes me want to leave the hobby.

from collection to one year out in an aquariun... i would lay solid money on 70%. From lfs or online, i would say 40% at BEST. Think about it, there are still people that say "oh, ich is always present in an aquarium, so why quarantine".

For every $350 achilies in expert hands that makes it, their is at least a dozen chromis, anthias, and mandarins that dont. How many mandarin gobbies are starving in a cube right this second? 100? 500? it has to higher.

ugggh, i need a drink

 

[ca1ore]

I have kept a log of every fish that I have bought since 2013 (before that, who knows). My success rate to a year is slightly above 70% (excluding those that arrived dead). Some drag the number down (pseudoanthias at 45%); others bring it up (tangs and damsels at over 90%). Of the 29% lost, the vast majority are during the QT process; only a few in the display. I purposely asked only about that part we each control. I have no idea how many are lost prior to my getting them, though I think it's a high number. Thanks to all that replied.

 

[Alfrareef]

I don’t count man. It’s part of the hobby!

but I can tell you that most of my fishes live way more than a year.
I follow some straight rules like only buying fish from LFS that takes good care of them. Also with certain species I just don’t buy it or let the fish reserved at the store for at least 2weeks while visit him regularly to see how it’s reacting and evolving. Finally all my tanks always have a good UV running 24x7.

 

[VJV]

In my case all the fish that make it past QT have been with me for more than one year.

If I include QT (where i treat prophylacticaly with Prazi and Copper) than I would say overall about 70% have made it past first year.

 

[Rispa]

I've had a very good survival rate. My oldest fish is a yellow watchman goby that has to be approaching 10, or at least that's how long I've had him. Out of 4 seahorses I lost one immediately and the others lived to be 5, 6, and 7. Four dartfish all lived to be 5+. I lost a pipefish to a rock falling on him and another very recently to an unknown cause (I wasn't around, so I just saw the dead body). I lost 2 mandarin dragonets in quarantine from PetSmart several years ago. Everything else in my tank is doing great.

I do think that most people who get into salt and don't have a service doing the work will either give up or make an effort to learn.

I also think there are way more losses from pet stores lack of optimal care and lack of care during import.

 

[cracker]

Iv'e done well in recent years. If I can get a fish thru QT & in the tank for a couple weeks. They usually live for years. I believe it's about experience & knowing what a particular fish needs.
A lot depends on the fish's condition when You bring it home.

 

[alton]

For me my losses where in the first 30 days. My losses where Flame Angels and Yellow Tangs. Regal Angels which are listed as hard to keep I am batting 100% keeping 5 out of 5 alive. Although I hate regulations I believe it comes down to how much water a fish is shipped in. A chevron tang will normally come into a LFS in a gallon of water, a yellow tang or flame angel a pint. Cleaner Wrasses and Mandarins are treated the same poor way.