Parameter measurement woes

SteveG_inDC

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The thing that will kill me in this hobby is my lack of confidence in my test results. I've had so many problems with probes, monitors, and test kits that I'm ready to pull my hair out.

First there was the salinity saga. Everyone loves their Milwaukee digital refractometers, but mine (admittedly, used) led me astray for months, causing me to overdose additives and mix salt incorrectly and generally spend a lot of money ruining my parameters. Eventually l I bought a second handheld refractometer with calibration solution (my first one was giving bad readings) and used a floating glass hydrometer to conclude that the handheld was trustworthy and the Milwaukee, no matter how I calibrated, was worthless.

Now I'm having mysterious alkalinity drops and I don't know if it's the test or real. I am using multiple brands of test kits for every parameter but I just don't trust my readings.

Mg reference solution = 1310 +/-1%, tested with Aquaforest kit at 1380, a deviation of 5.3%
Ca reference solution = 425 +/-1%,, tested with Salifert kit at 460, a deviation of 8.2%

This is just today. In the past I've done two test kits or even three (AF, Salifert, and Red Sea) on the same sample and gotten deviations this large or larger.
These are all non-expired. I wash all my glassware in citric acid, rinse in RO/DI, then rinse in sample water before testing.

Meanwhile Alk and Ca seem to be dropping despite my increasing kalkwasser dosage and no sign of precipitation. Alk went from 7.3 to 8.3 the next day, 7.2 the next day, 9.0 four days later, 8.5 three days later, 8.0 six days, later, 7.0 four days later, 6.3 two days later. Similar but not as dramatic Ca swings during the same period. Mg is testing low at 1125. I don't test it that often, but was 1140 three weeks ago, 1200 in December, and 1380 back in August, 1140 in July. Needless to day, stony corals not really growing or even doing well. Softies were doing ok, but recently even my recordeas and green start polyps (!) look unhappy.

My makeup water (Reef Crystals) is testing at 7.2 dKH and 380 Ca, which is terrible, but I don't know if I should start buying more expensive salt or just better test kits. I've already spent a lot on test kits and additives. I just want stability and confident measurement. Going absolutely crazy!! Someone help.
 

Dennis Cartier

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The floating glass hydrometer you purchased, is it a Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer? If so, use that to cross check your salinity for the tank and new saltwater. If not, get the TM version. That will eliminate any doubt as to what your salinity is reading. Once you get in the groove, you can introduce other means of testing, but always fallback to the TM Pro whenever there is any doubt.

Next, get a Hanna Alkalinity tester. That will help to remove any doubt as to what your alkalinity is.

To be honest, between those 2 and temperature, I would not worry too much with the Ca and Mg. They don't move very fast (assuming no big salinity swings), so you can test those much, much less (like once a month). Based on that, if you see wildly differing readings with frequent tests of Ca and Mg, then they are suspect.

Just keeping your salinity, alkalinity and temperature in the proper ranges gets you most of the way to stability.

Dennis
 
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SteveG_inDC

SteveG_inDC

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The floating glass hydrometer you purchased, is it a Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer? If so, use that to cross check your salinity for the tank and new saltwater. If not, get the TM version. That will eliminate any doubt as to what your salinity is reading. Once you get in the groove, you can introduce other means of testing, but always fallback to the TM Pro whenever there is any doubt.
I think I have the salinity under control. It just took me a while to realize that my problem was believing all the love that the Milwaukee testers get.

Next, get a Hanna Alkalinity tester. That will help to remove any doubt as to what your alkalinity is.
I should have mentioned this but all of my Alk tests were all with the Hanna checker. I occasionally check against Red Sea , but the problem with the Red Sea test is that while Alk is easy to implement, it's hard to know when you've reached the endpoint because it's way more gradual than titration tests should be.

To be honest, between those 2 and temperature, I would not worry too much with the Ca and Mg. They don't move very fast (assuming no big salinity swings), so you can test those much, much less (like once a month). Based on that, if you see wildly differing readings with frequent tests of Ca and Mg, then they are suspect.
Exactly. The swings seem unlikely (although if Alk is swinging, couldn't Ca be also?) ANyway, this is like saying ignore Ca, which I cannot do if I am trying to fix a problem of slow growth in stony corals.

Just keeping your salinity, alkalinity and temperature in the proper ranges gets you most of the way to stability.

Dennis

Salinity and temp are not a problem for me.
 

PatW

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I used to use Reef Crystals. I did not track the calcium that’s much. But it is my habit to mix up salt and test the ALK before adding to the tank. If it is not where I want it, I adjust the ALK to match. I always had to add a fair bit of muriatic acid to get my reef crystals down to an ALK of 8. So your figures for ALK look way off. It could be your measuring is off or it could be something with the batch of salt. If my poor memory serves, I have gotten batches of salt that were not in line to the published parameters and when they were off, I retested and got the same result.

Anyways, the figures I get for Reef Crystals parameters on the internet (which is 100% trustworthy) are an ALK of 13 and a Ca of 490 for Reef Crystals at 35 ppt. I found 4 different sources giving EXACTLY the same figures. I do not for one minute believe that they all mixed the stuff up and tested it. There is just too much variation in testing for them all to get the same results. So they must be using the same unnamed source.

You could take a sample of your mixed salt to a LFS for measurement to see if they agree with you. Or you could do what I did and adjust the ALK upwards, I use my two part ALK for this which is just CaCl,
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Meanwhile Alk and Ca seem to be dropping despite my increasing kalkwasser dosage and no sign of precipitation. Alk went from 7.3 to 8.3 the next day, 7.2 the next day, 9.0 four days later, 8.5 three days later, 8.0 six days, later, 7.0 four days later, 6.3 two days later. Similar but not as dramatic Ca swings during the same period. Mg is testing low at 1125. I don't test it that often, but was 1140 three weeks ago, 1200 in December, and 1380 back in August, 1140 in July. Needless to day, stony corals not really growing or even doing well. Softies were doing ok, but recently even my recordeas and green start polyps (!) look unhappy.

How much kalkwasser?
 
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SteveG_inDC

SteveG_inDC

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I think I found the culprit. Hanna checker giving bad readings. AquaForest kit just arrived in mail and it includes a reference solution. Hopefully the problem was just bad reagent.
 

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Dennis Cartier

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If you haven't read this, you might want to. It might help you to avoid the shift when changing between bottles.

 

mdb_talon

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I've run across bad reagents from Hanna twice in the last six months, it baffles me how far apart two bottles can actually be! It's chemistry, this shouldn't be happening!

I have not had any major issues with the nitrate/phosphate yet, but the alkalinity reagent is a complete joke.
 

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