PH Control with CO2 Scrubber

BlueFynn_Ian

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Using a CO2 Scrubber to Maintain Stable pH Levels without Affecting Alkalinity Levels

Hypothesis: I believe by varying the source air going into a protein skimmer by way of a ball valve and CO2 scrubber I can stabilize the pH levels in my reef tank without additional additives or impacts to my current alkalinity levels.

Using an APEX pH probe I will be monitoring the levels and pH swings in an existing reef tank and seeing how they change after adding a controllable electric ball valve to change the source air for a Reef Octopus Classic protein skimmer.

This has been a progression over the last couple of months that is mostly owed to my constant need to tinker with things that are not broken. I am by no means a chemist, electrician or engineer, just a guy who got an APEX for Christmas and has now turned this hobby into a fun obsession. Seriously, getting an APEX will completely change how you look at your tank and try to manipulate it. Disclaimer: the following is mostly a brain dump and I'm sure there are flaws in steps I've taken.

In true tinkering fashion: "If its not broken, try to change it and make it better."

I started this experiment with the belief that a reef tank focused on coral growth should be an enclosed ecosystem with optimal parameters and not something that is emulating the natural reefs in our world. I know that major comparisons are made to natural seawater being the baseline for our systems but WHAT IS natural seawater? Where in the world are those numbers pulled from? What human influences have changed what seawater actually is in today's day and age? I'm not trying to change the entire way of thinking, just stating what my mind questions when I see people make the argument that we have to match all the levels we see in today's reefs.

Before tinkering, my Red Sea Reefer 350 had a relatively normal pH swing. 8.21 as a high around 8pm and then 7.97 as a low around 8am. Perfectly acceptable and coral was showing some growth. First, I wanted to try and boost my overall pH numbers without adding any dosing systems or additives. I decided to purchase the relatively cheap BRS Universal CO2 Skimmer and attached it to my Reef Octopus skimmer. The results were achieved in the first day and I noticed an increase in coral growth within the first few weeks. My pH swing changed to being 8.32 as a high and 8.15 as a low. Perfectly acceptable.

Then I got tired of manually dosing and started dosing Calcium, Alk, Magnesium and Tropic Marin Part C using BRS's two part system. Love it and have now had extremely consistent levels for the last few weeks but the downside is my pH has been all over the place. Dosing during the low points in my usual pH swing changed my highs upwards of 8.5 and lows in the 8.3 area. I did not want my pH that high and really wanted to try and level the swing out as much as possible. This is where the actual experiment begins.

I purchased a 3-way Electric AC110 Ball valve from HSH Flo and added it in-line to my tubing going from my protein skimmer to my CO2 scrubber. Had to add a plug to the wiring so I could control it via my APEX and then set the guidelines to pull air from my CO2 scrubber when the pH falls below 8.31 and then to pull air from the ambient space in my cabinet when the pH rises above 8.34. The goal was to keep the pH between 8.3 and 8.35 initially to see how quickly the change would occur by changing the air source. So far (today is the first day) I have managed to keep the pH within the 8.31-8.34 range just by turning the ball valve on and off and changing the air source.

Will keep updates going after this test going through an alkalinity dosing tomorrow morning and has been running for a couple of weeks. But so far results are very encouraging and I now have stable calcium, alkalinity, magnesium and pH. Included some photos below showing the parts and build, I know I have heard of others doing this but was not able to find any detailed explanations or builds.

If you made it this far thanks for reading! Let me know if there are any questions or suggestions for improvement!

IMG_8725.JPG

The Parts.

IMG_8726.JPG

The Valve from HSH. I purchased the 110 version with 1/2"NPT openings. I did not want anything smaller that would reduce the airflow and choke the skimmer. I know Neptune has a ball valve but it is too small to be controlling the airflow to a protein skimmer.

IMG_8727.JPG

The wiring. This valve comes with 5 wires, only black and red are needed. The other three are for controlling lights which would indicate what way the valve is facing, did not need this. Make sure you slide heat shrink tubing over the wires before you make these crimped connections! I forgot the first time and had to redo it.

IMG_8738.JPG

Sitting on my ATO for now, trying to figure out a mounting bracket for it next.

IMG_8742.JPG

Homemade silencing cup for the "regular" non CO2 scrubbed air. Works fantastic, will make it prettier later.

IMG_8743.PNG

Simple instructions on the APEX.

IMG_8741.PNG

Before adding the ball valve.

IMG_8746.PNG

Day 1 of the experiment. IMG_8738.JPG IMG_8743.PNG
 

arking_mark

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BlueFynn_Ian

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Thanks for the extra info! Was having trouble tracking down anything like what I was trying to do.

Day 1 in the books: pH was maintained between 8.28-8.34. Had a small dips right after my lights went out and before my alk dosing started. Hoping to have this corrected tonight. Other than that dip my range stayed from 8.31-8.33 the entire day. So far so good.
 

arking_mark

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Thanks for the extra info! Was having trouble tracking down anything like what I was trying to do.

Day 1 in the books: pH was maintained between 8.28-8.34. Had a small dips right after my lights went out and before my alk dosing started. Hoping to have this corrected tonight. Other than that dip my range stayed from 8.31-8.33 the entire day. So far so good.

I gave up the tight control once photosynthetic organisms took over tank. My skimmer and indoor CO2 levels often weren't high enough to push down the pH to target level. I would have had to buy an even larger skimmer and more water moving equipment..my range typically is +/- 0.07, which is good enough.
 
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BlueFynn_Ian

BlueFynn_Ian

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I gave up the tight control once photosynthetic organisms took over tank. My skimmer and indoor CO2 levels often weren't high enough to push down the pH to target level. I would have had to buy an even larger skimmer and more water moving equipment..my range typically is +/- 0.07, which is good enough.
Yeah I will have to see how it goes in the future. I could see not wanting to have it dialed in so tightly once the skimmer is not adequately sized.
 

WallyTime7

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Using a CO2 Scrubber to Maintain Stable pH Levels without Affecting Alkalinity Levels

Hypothesis: I believe by varying the source air going into a protein skimmer by way of a ball valve and CO2 scrubber I can stabilize the pH levels in my reef tank without additional additives or impacts to my current alkalinity levels.

Using an APEX pH probe I will be monitoring the levels and pH swings in an existing reef tank and seeing how they change after adding a controllable electric ball valve to change the source air for a Reef Octopus Classic protein skimmer.

This has been a progression over the last couple of months that is mostly owed to my constant need to tinker with things that are not broken. I am by no means a chemist, electrician or engineer, just a guy who got an APEX for Christmas and has now turned this hobby into a fun obsession. Seriously, getting an APEX will completely change how you look at your tank and try to manipulate it. Disclaimer: the following is mostly a brain dump and I'm sure there are flaws in steps I've taken.

In true tinkering fashion: "If its not broken, try to change it and make it better."

I started this experiment with the belief that a reef tank focused on coral growth should be an enclosed ecosystem with optimal parameters and not something that is emulating the natural reefs in our world. I know that major comparisons are made to natural seawater being the baseline for our systems but WHAT IS natural seawater? Where in the world are those numbers pulled from? What human influences have changed what seawater actually is in today's day and age? I'm not trying to change the entire way of thinking, just stating what my mind questions when I see people make the argument that we have to match all the levels we see in today's reefs.

Before tinkering, my Red Sea Reefer 350 had a relatively normal pH swing. 8.21 as a high around 8pm and then 7.97 as a low around 8am. Perfectly acceptable and coral was showing some growth. First, I wanted to try and boost my overall pH numbers without adding any dosing systems or additives. I decided to purchase the relatively cheap BRS Universal CO2 Skimmer and attached it to my Reef Octopus skimmer. The results were achieved in the first day and I noticed an increase in coral growth within the first few weeks. My pH swing changed to being 8.32 as a high and 8.15 as a low. Perfectly acceptable.

Then I got tired of manually dosing and started dosing Calcium, Alk, Magnesium and Tropic Marin Part C using BRS's two part system. Love it and have now had extremely consistent levels for the last few weeks but the downside is my pH has been all over the place. Dosing during the low points in my usual pH swing changed my highs upwards of 8.5 and lows in the 8.3 area. I did not want my pH that high and really wanted to try and level the swing out as much as possible. This is where the actual experiment begins.

I purchased a 3-way Electric AC110 Ball valve from HSH Flo and added it in-line to my tubing going from my protein skimmer to my CO2 scrubber. Had to add a plug to the wiring so I could control it via my APEX and then set the guidelines to pull air from my CO2 scrubber when the pH falls below 8.31 and then to pull air from the ambient space in my cabinet when the pH rises above 8.34. The goal was to keep the pH between 8.3 and 8.35 initially to see how quickly the change would occur by changing the air source. So far (today is the first day) I have managed to keep the pH within the 8.31-8.34 range just by turning the ball valve on and off and changing the air source.

Will keep updates going after this test going through an alkalinity dosing tomorrow morning and has been running for a couple of weeks. But so far results are very encouraging and I now have stable calcium, alkalinity, magnesium and pH. Included some photos below showing the parts and build, I know I have heard of others doing this but was not able to find any detailed explanations or builds.

If you made it this far thanks for reading! Let me know if there are any questions or suggestions for improvement!

IMG_8725.JPG

The Parts.

IMG_8726.JPG

The Valve from HSH. I purchased the 110 version with 1/2"NPT openings. I did not want anything smaller that would reduce the airflow and choke the skimmer. I know Neptune has a ball valve but it is too small to be controlling the airflow to a protein skimmer.

IMG_8727.JPG

The wiring. This valve comes with 5 wires, only black and red are needed. The other three are for controlling lights which would indicate what way the valve is facing, did not need this. Make sure you slide heat shrink tubing over the wires before you make these crimped connections! I forgot the first time and had to redo it.

IMG_8738.JPG

Sitting on my ATO for now, trying to figure out a mounting bracket for it next.

IMG_8742.JPG

Homemade silencing cup for the "regular" non CO2 scrubbed air. Works fantastic, will make it prettier later.

IMG_8743.PNG

Simple instructions on the APEX.

IMG_8741.PNG

Before adding the ball valve.

IMG_8746.PNG

Day 1 of the experiment. IMG_8738.JPG IMG_8743.PNG
Where does that silencing cup go in relation to your ball valve? Ie) where is that air being pulled go to from the cup?
 
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BlueFynn_Ian

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Where does that silencing cup go in relation to your ball valve? Ie) where is that air being pulled go to from the cup?
Right now the silencing cup sits on top of the ato container under the cabinet, connected to 3/8 hosing that then goes into the Left Side (Closed side) of the ball valve. When the pH hits over 8.34 the ball valve turns on, rotates to the left and pulls cabinet air through the silencing cup. When pH drops to below 8.31 the ball valve shuts off and rotates back to the right to continue pulling air through the scrubber.
 

doubleshot00

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Seems like a lot of work compared to just letting the scrubber do its thing. My corals dont look or absorb anything different from a ph at 8.1-8.4. so I just let it fly.
 

WallyTime7

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Right now the silencing cup sits on top of the ato container under the cabinet, connected to 3/8 hosing that then goes into the Left Side (Closed side) of the ball valve. When the pH hits over 8.34 the ball valve turns on, rotates to the left and pulls cabinet air through the silencing cup. When pH drops to below 8.31 the ball valve shuts off and rotates back to the right to continue pulling air through the scrubber.
Thanks. Is it that loud that you need a silencer when it's off - pulling cabinet air?
 
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BlueFynn_Ian

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Thanks. Is it that loud that you need a silencer when it's off - pulling cabinet air?
It was not that bad but was noticeable. I figured everything else is dead silent I might as well add the silencer to the skimmer as well.

Seems like a lot of work compared to just letting the scrubber do its thing. My corals dont look or absorb anything different from a ph at 8.1-8.4. so I just let it fly.
I had the scrubber just running normal for a while but once I started dosing 2part my pH was jumping all over the place. Wanted to see if a quick wiring job with a ball valve could negate that issue. Took me about 20mins to wire and install.
 
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BlueFynn_Ian

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5 days in and pH swing is now in a range of 3.28-3.32. Couple odds and ends spikes/falls from dosing or water changing but overall I am happy with how this is managing the pH of the tank.

Not hitting targeted 3.0-3.5 for the experiment I wanted to run, but did not factor in that if I was lowering max pH then it would decrease the entire range.

Could play with dosing more to try and smooth this completely out but a .04 swing is more than flat enough to now see if it has a positive or negative affect on coral growth.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Not hitting targeted 3.0-3.5 for the experiment I wanted to run, but did not factor in that if I was lowering max pH then it would decrease the entire range.

Did the alk change? I'm not getting how a scrubber used in any fashion can, by itself, lower the pH max.
 
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BlueFynn_Ian

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Did the alk change? I'm not getting how a scrubber used in any fashion can, by itself, lower the pH max.
Alk has stayed between 8.5-9 dKh. Still dialing in dosing as uptake has steadily been increasing the last couple of weeks (added some more SPS and a small clam).

It was not being used by itself to lower the pH, but I believe that due to dosing sodium carbonate throughout the night and having the scrubber running 24/7 was boosting my overall pH too much.

Now just put a 3 way ball valve to only pull air through the scrubber when my pH was low and pull CO2 rich air from the basement when my pH was high. So the scrubber is not being used when my pH rises above 8.34 and that is helping keep my overall pH from spiking too high from the dosing system.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Alk has stayed between 8.5-9 dKh. Still dialing in dosing as uptake has steadily been increasing the last couple of weeks (added some more SPS and a small clam).

It was not being used by itself to lower the pH, but I believe that due to dosing sodium carbonate throughout the night and having the scrubber running 24/7 was boosting my overall pH too much.

Now just put a 3 way ball valve to only pull air through the scrubber when my pH was low and pull CO2 rich air from the basement when my pH was high. So the scrubber is not being used when my pH rises above 8.34 and that is helping keep my overall pH from spiking too high from the dosing system.

Ok, makes sense. :)
 

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