PH highest at night and early morning?

[rhostam]

I’ve always had my pH highs and lows at times I thought were wonky. No amount of aeration or altering of refugium lighting schedule, or anything seemed to change it.

pH highest vetween 6-7 PM and lowest between 7-9 AM.

Finally rigged my broken IceCap Kalk reactor into service again and tweaking to get alk where I want it (incidentally stabilizing pH to a much tighter and preferred range).

Pre-KW
Graphs look similar going back weeks. So, basically swings but consistent swings.

Post-KW Reintroduction to System
You can see the right “swings“ with an uptick as I tweaked config further.

The new tank will finally have its alk/pH pegged like my original tank. Sigh of relief.

 

[EakTheFreak]

I’ve always had my pH highs and lows at times I thought were wonky. No amount of aeration or altering of refugium lighting schedule, or anything seemed to change it.

pH highest vetween 6-7 PM and lowest between 7-9 AM.

Finally rigged my broken IceCap Kalk reactor into service again and tweaking to get alk where I want it (incidentally stabilizing pH to a much tighter and preferred range).

Pre-KW
Graphs look similar going back weeks. So, basically swings but consistent swings.

Post-KW Reintroduction to System
You can see the right “swings“ with an uptick as I tweaked config further.

The new tank will finally have its alk/pH pegged like my original tank. Sigh of relief.

What does your ALK sit at while holding 8.2 PH?

 

[rhostam]

What does your ALK sit at while holding 8.2 PH?

So far about 8.26 dKh. I’m aiming for about 9 - 9.5. That’s what seems to make most of the tank inhabitants the happiest.

I also use tank water to supply reactor rather that fresh RODI.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I hate fleshy algae photosynthesis in reef tanks, but I’m on my own it seems.

Why are you concerned about it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Fleshy algae has been shown to cause coral mortality due to causing a shift in the microbial population. This is because of the large amounts of doc produced. Calciferous algaes like coralline produce much less and are likely remineralizing at a proper rate without causing huge shifts because of this.

(PDF) Macroalgal release of dissolved organic carbon in coral reef and its interaction with the bacteria associated with the coral Porites lutea

PDF | Macroalgae supersede corals in the reefs worldwide, converting the coral-dominant systems into algal-dominant ones. Dissolved organic carbon (DOC)... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

the article you post also shows some species do not have that purported effect:

"There was no apparent change in the dominant bacterial groups exposed to the DOC released by the green macroalgae Caulerpa racemosa "

Wonder what folks would find if they analyzed effects of fish food. lol

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

the article you post also shows some species do not have that purported effect:

"There was no apparent change in the dominant bacterial groups exposed to the DOC released by the green macroalgae Caulerpa racemosa "

Wonder what folks would find if they analyzed effects of fish food. lol

With you roaming around these forums, I have to watch what I say in fear of being discredited.

(PDF) Indirect effects of algae on coral: Algae-mediated, microbe-induced coral mortality

PDF | Declines in coral cover are generally associated with increases in the abundance of fleshy algae. In many cases, it remains unclear whether algae... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

www.int-res.com

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

the article you post also shows some species do not have that purported effect:

"There was no apparent change in the dominant bacterial groups exposed to the DOC released by the green macroalgae Caulerpa racemosa "

Wonder what folks would find if they analyzed effects of fish food. lol

Like you had said in another post, DOC isn't as simple as I'm making it out to be. I'm not claiming that all algae is bad and releases exhorbent amounts of doc. If anything these studies show there is algae that causes microbial shifts which increases coral mortality during stressor events and yet we throw them in our tanks without considering the long term effects. I'm interested in seeing what a longer timeline study would show as well. It would take someone with aquarium or hobbyist interests and funding to be able to test the effects of doc produced by algae we keep on the various corals we keep.

I agree that we should be testing doc produced from food as well. Maybe people would start cleaning their sumps and sandbeds out more if they found out the rotting flesh in their tanks are causing more problems than an increase in nutrients alone. Mechanical filtration would become more important than it already is.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Like you had said in another post, DOC isn't as simple as I'm making it out to be. I'm not claiming that all algae is bad and releases exhorbent amounts of doc. If anything these studies show there is algae that causes microbial shifts which increases coral mortality during stressor events and yet we throw them in our tanks without considering the long term effects. I'm interested in seeing what a longer timeline study would show as well. It would take someone with aquarium or hobbyist interests and funding to be able to test the effects of doc produced by algae we keep on the various corals we keep.

I agree that we should be testing doc produced from food as well. Maybe people would start cleaning their sumps and sandbeds out more if they found out the rotting flesh in their tanks are causing more problems than an increase in nutrients alone. Mechanical filtration would become more important than it already is.

Do the long term effects matter if we are inadvertently taking steps to mitigate the unknown buildup (water changes, carbon, cryptic sponges etc.)? I mean there are plenty of old old tanks full of sticks that have a remote refugium/scrubber running at least caulerpa or chaeto. There are also some tanks that mix the algae and corals directly. If there were a tangible effect on coral health (in the context of the complex systems that a mature reef tank is) you would expect it to be a bigger deal and not just something that has only been shown in a controlled study.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Do the long term effects matter if we are inadvertently taking steps to mitigate the unknown buildup (water changes, carbon, cryptic sponges etc.)? I mean there are plenty of old old tanks full of sticks that have a remote refugium/scrubber running at least caulerpa or chaeto. There are also some tanks that mix the algae and corals directly. If there were a tangible effect on coral health (in the context of the complex systems that a mature reef tank is) you would expect it to be a bigger deal and not just something that has only been shown in a controlled study.

Not if you're doing what is needed to remove/control them. It may not be an issue as they are already doing things to limit the amount of DOC. Using carbon and water changes will be the most commonly used methods, but what about the people you read about who haven't done a water change in a year or don't use carbon or skimmers, just a refugium? When I first learned there were people that did that, it's all I wanted to do. The allure of keeping a reef tank with no water changes is enticing for a lot of people. The coral may be fine for now, but that next alk spike, pH drop, heatwave, power outage may put coral through a test they're not prepared to handle.

I'd suggest reading through the articles as the abstract doesn't tell you the whole story. You may come to a different conclusion afterwards, but it's a discussion worth having.

I googled "algae doc causing microbial shift" and found several other research papers as well. Haven't had time to go through all of them.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Not if you're doing what is needed to remove/control them. It may not be an issue as they are already doing things to limit the amount of DOC. Using carbon and water changes will be the most commonly used methods, but what about the people you read about who haven't done a water change in a year or don't use carbon or skimmers, just a refugium? When I first learned there were people that did that, it's all I wanted to do. The allure of keeping a reef tank with no water changes is enticing for a lot of people. The coral may be fine for now, but that next alk spike, pH drop, heatwave, power outage may put coral through a test they're not prepared to handle.

I'd suggest reading through the articles as the abstract doesn't tell you the whole story. You may come to a different conclusion afterwards, but it's a discussion worth having.

I googled "algae doc causing microbial shift" and found several other research papers as well. Haven't had time to go through all of them.

I believe a refugium is a key part of the triton method, yet these tanks seem to work long term. My issue with reaction to the study isn't that there aren't enough studies, I am sure they did find some relationship. My issue is with the assertion that it matters in a reef tank. Our tanks are full of all sorts of microorganisms, cryptic sponges, etc. that may completely flip this equation. I am not convinced that macroalgae in a reef system can have any tangible effects on the health of corals as evidenced by decades of people keeping refugiums of various types and not having any issues, even some with a mix of pretty macros and corals or having a remote display refugium packed full of a diverse array of macros.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I joked about fish food, but one can be sure that the types of foods chosen and organisms chosen to eat those foods will impact microbial types and levels and I don't see anyone worrying about that.

 

[Billldg]

I find this interesting as Photosynthesis usually raises PH. Photosynthesis happens when our lights come on during the day.