Please help - Disease ID

winemanta

New Member
View Badges
Joined
May 2, 2023
Messages
14
Reaction score
14
Location
Central Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Here is my question:

Can someone please help me identify what is ailing my fish AND recommend a treatment option?

This is lengthy, but nothing is routine in the reefing world, so here is everything I could think of that COULD BE relevant. This one has me stumped.

Basic information:

Fish were in a 16 gallon Biocube for 2-3 years. Within the last 40 days, I upgraded their tank to a 32 gallon Biocube. Other than the fish and invertibrates (crabs, snails, urchin, small BTA's), everything is new (sand, live rock from LFS, filter media, etc.) I always cycle my own dry rock, but due to an impulse buy of the 32-gallon and a planned vacation I went with Live Rock and Caribsea fiji pink sand. I have been monitoring the fish at my LFS and have talked to the aquatics specialists, and they have not had any issues that would match my fish's symptoms.

Water Parameters:
Nitrate: 20 parts
Nitrite: 0 parts
Ammonia: 0 parts
Salinity: 33 ppt

Livestock:
Naked Clownfish (2) - Had not paired up yet - (newest one deceased)
Flame Hawkfish
Tailspot Blenny
Tomini Tang (deceased)
Lemonpeel Angel (deceased)
Pincushion Urchin
Emerald Crab
Blue Leg Hermits
Super Nassarius Snails (4?)
Turbo Snail (1)

Symptoms:
Discolored fish (pale, washed out, white film covering scales?)
1 fish was breathing rapidly (first to die - clownfish)
NOT hiding, NOT sensitive to light
Total of 3 fish died within a week - no additional losses for almost 2 weeks now)

Media -
Floss
Foam
Chemipure Blue - removed from tank when Herbtana added)
Bacteria Block (from an established tank - used to help start the cycle in the new tank)

Timeline:
May 14 - Fish moved to new 32 gallon tank (clownfish, hawkfish, blenny)
May 22 - 3 new fish introduced (Tomini Tang, Lemon Peel Angel, clownfish).
May 31 - Hood (lighting) on Biocube stopped working

June 5 - Noticed new clownfish was struggling - sick - removed from tank and placed in QT (Died within 24 hours in QT tank). My QT tank is a copper tank. Suspected he wasn't welcomed by the existing clownfish and although I had 2 BTA's for hosting, with the hood not working, anemones weren't opening fully and welcoming the clowns. I truly thought this fish was being bullied.

June 8 - Central Garden sending new hood - setup a temporary light (Kessil Tuna Blue - hoped it was enough for the anemones until new hood arrives), Nassarius snail laid eggs in the tank - consumed by copepods). Turbo snail died.

June 9 - Noticed some of the other fish were beginning to look pale (washed out), and the angel and tang stopped eating - immediately suspected velvet based on symptoms from 1st clownfish (the one that died in the QT tank was the only fish that displayed rapid breathing) and the washed out look of the remaining fish. Gave remaining clown, hawkfish, angel, and tang freshwater dip for 5-8 minutes. Couldn't get the blenny out, so he missed the dip. Began treating the whole tank with Herbtana - only thing I had on hand that wouldn't harm the inverts. Anticipated I would lose all of the fish in the tank, so did what I could to give them some relief with the FW dip. I should have moved them to the QT tank, but I wasn't certain it was Velvet, and of course, I was leaving for vacation the next day while my 17 year old daughter maintained all of my tanks. Since all of the fish appeared ill, I decided to leave them in the display tank and focus on nutrition.

June 10 - Left for Vacation - Prepared my daughter the fish would all die probably within the next 2 days and just to remove them when they did. Also made sure she had NO OPPORTUNITY for contaminating any of the other tanks.

June 11 - Angel died and removed from tank
June 12 - Tang died (consumed by cleanup crew)
June 23 - Returned from Vacation and New Hood Installed
June 25 - Remaining hawkfish, blenny and clownfish still look washed out - but they are alive. They actually look better than they did on the 9th with no treatment. These are the original fish that I have had for 2-3 years.

Blenny is just now showing signs of flashing, but it looks like there is an injury on his side which could be the reason for the flashing. All fish are out in the open and behaving normally - just look like they are covered in a white film. All fish are also eating. I'm not sure I want to use Copper on them if I don't need to. I was surprised they survived for this long and am suspecting something other than velvet because of this. I'm hoping someone might be able to give me some insight so I know how to treat the fish. Pictures and Video from today attached. (ignore the floaters in the tank - I Tunzed the glass to get a clearer video of the fish). You can see the underside of the hawkfish is white and he has a white film (that looks like velvet). Same film on the clownfish. Blenny is hard to tell because of his coloring.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you! Let me know if additional pictures or video are needed.

Clownfish Picture.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Blenny Video.MOV
    14.5 MB
  • Hawkfish Video 2.MOV
    17 MB
  • Hawkfish Video.MOV
    16.9 MB

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
92,224
Reaction score
203,910
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Here is my question:

Can someone please help me identify what is ailing my fish AND recommend a treatment option?

This is lengthy, but nothing is routine in the reefing world, so here is everything I could think of that COULD BE relevant. This one has me stumped.

Basic information:

Fish were in a 16 gallon Biocube for 2-3 years. Within the last 40 days, I upgraded their tank to a 32 gallon Biocube. Other than the fish and invertibrates (crabs, snails, urchin, small BTA's), everything is new (sand, live rock from LFS, filter media, etc.) I always cycle my own dry rock, but due to an impulse buy of the 32-gallon and a planned vacation I went with Live Rock and Caribsea fiji pink sand. I have been monitoring the fish at my LFS and have talked to the aquatics specialists, and they have not had any issues that would match my fish's symptoms.

Water Parameters:
Nitrate: 20 parts
Nitrite: 0 parts
Ammonia: 0 parts
Salinity: 33 ppt

Livestock:
Naked Clownfish (2) - Had not paired up yet - (newest one deceased)
Flame Hawkfish
Tailspot Blenny
Tomini Tang (deceased)
Lemonpeel Angel (deceased)
Pincushion Urchin
Emerald Crab
Blue Leg Hermits
Super Nassarius Snails (4?)
Turbo Snail (1)

Symptoms:
Discolored fish (pale, washed out, white film covering scales?)
1 fish was breathing rapidly (first to die - clownfish)
NOT hiding, NOT sensitive to light
Total of 3 fish died within a week - no additional losses for almost 2 weeks now)

Media -
Floss
Foam
Chemipure Blue - removed from tank when Herbtana added)
Bacteria Block (from an established tank - used to help start the cycle in the new tank)

Timeline:
May 14 - Fish moved to new 32 gallon tank (clownfish, hawkfish, blenny)
May 22 - 3 new fish introduced (Tomini Tang, Lemon Peel Angel, clownfish).
May 31 - Hood (lighting) on Biocube stopped working

June 5 - Noticed new clownfish was struggling - sick - removed from tank and placed in QT (Died within 24 hours in QT tank). My QT tank is a copper tank. Suspected he wasn't welcomed by the existing clownfish and although I had 2 BTA's for hosting, with the hood not working, anemones weren't opening fully and welcoming the clowns. I truly thought this fish was being bullied.

June 8 - Central Garden sending new hood - setup a temporary light (Kessil Tuna Blue - hoped it was enough for the anemones until new hood arrives), Nassarius snail laid eggs in the tank - consumed by copepods). Turbo snail died.

June 9 - Noticed some of the other fish were beginning to look pale (washed out), and the angel and tang stopped eating - immediately suspected velvet based on symptoms from 1st clownfish (the one that died in the QT tank was the only fish that displayed rapid breathing) and the washed out look of the remaining fish. Gave remaining clown, hawkfish, angel, and tang freshwater dip for 5-8 minutes. Couldn't get the blenny out, so he missed the dip. Began treating the whole tank with Herbtana - only thing I had on hand that wouldn't harm the inverts. Anticipated I would lose all of the fish in the tank, so did what I could to give them some relief with the FW dip. I should have moved them to the QT tank, but I wasn't certain it was Velvet, and of course, I was leaving for vacation the next day while my 17 year old daughter maintained all of my tanks. Since all of the fish appeared ill, I decided to leave them in the display tank and focus on nutrition.

June 10 - Left for Vacation - Prepared my daughter the fish would all die probably within the next 2 days and just to remove them when they did. Also made sure she had NO OPPORTUNITY for contaminating any of the other tanks.

June 11 - Angel died and removed from tank
June 12 - Tang died (consumed by cleanup crew)
June 23 - Returned from Vacation and New Hood Installed
June 25 - Remaining hawkfish, blenny and clownfish still look washed out - but they are alive. They actually look better than they did on the 9th with no treatment. These are the original fish that I have had for 2-3 years.

Blenny is just now showing signs of flashing, but it looks like there is an injury on his side which could be the reason for the flashing. All fish are out in the open and behaving normally - just look like they are covered in a white film. All fish are also eating. I'm not sure I want to use Copper on them if I don't need to. I was surprised they survived for this long and am suspecting something other than velvet because of this. I'm hoping someone might be able to give me some insight so I know how to treat the fish. Pictures and Video from today attached. (ignore the floaters in the tank - I Tunzed the glass to get a clearer video of the fish). You can see the underside of the hawkfish is white and he has a white film (that looks like velvet). Same film on the clownfish. Blenny is hard to tell because of his coloring.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you! Let me know if additional pictures or video are needed.

Clownfish Picture.jpg
Im not convinced while possible that it is velvet. If Velvet, Herbtana is a tonic and would have been ineffective. I believe there is bacterial issue going on. Some signs if velvet as videos are not completely clear are fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.
What you can do for best recovery chances are to transfer remaining fish to a sterile quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand). Assure the medication you use states treats Oodinum.
You can then safely add Seachem Kanaplex with the coppersafe and add aeration with use of air stone.
Monitor and maintain safe ammonia levels with a Reliable ammonia test kit. Treat for 30 days and leave your display tank fishless for 6-8 weeks. Inverts and coral can remain in display tank during the treatment period.
 
Upvote 0

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
26,048
Reaction score
25,806
Location
Dundee, MI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Sorry - I'm late to the party. I had a question here:

I first read: Fish were in a 16 gallon Biocube for 2-3 years

Then I saw this: May 22 - 3 new fish introduced (Tomini Tang, Lemon Peel Angel, clownfish).

I thought at first ALL of the fish had been in your care for 2-3 years. I see now that all of the new fish were the ones that died?

If so, I think that is a major clue as to what is going on here. All of the new fish died about a month after you added them. One possibility is that they came in with flukes. That is one disease that often takes a month of so to kill the fish, and even longer to transfer over to existing fish.

You might consider dosing the display tank with Prazipro, 2x, 8 days apart with really good aeration.

Side note - in the videos, there seems to be a lot of particles in the water - microbubbles or something else?

Jay
 
Upvote 0
OP
OP
W

winemanta

New Member
View Badges
Joined
May 2, 2023
Messages
14
Reaction score
14
Location
Central Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you Jay! The particles in the water are from cleaning the film algae off the glass so I could get a clearer video of the fish. I cleaned the glass after being gone for 14 days, then shot the video.

Yes - only the new fish died. Started with the clown, then the angel and tang after the freshwater dip. The angel was looking much better after the dip, but died the next day. I didn’t see any flukes, but my dip was in a light colored bucket.

I think I am going to try a dip today in a dark bucket to check for flukes. If I see them, then treat the display tank. If I don’t, then move to copper QT tank and use the Kanaplex. All of the remaining fish are eating. Would it be better to soak the food or dose the tank with Kanaplex?

Never in a million years would hope for flukes, but here I am…hoping for flukes.
If it’s flukes, I should see something in the freshwater dip correct?
 
Upvote 0

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
26,048
Reaction score
25,806
Location
Dundee, MI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you Jay! The particles in the water are from cleaning the film algae off the glass so I could get a clearer video of the fish. I cleaned the glass after being gone for 14 days, then shot the video.

Yes - only the new fish died. Started with the clown, then the angel and tang after the freshwater dip. The angel was looking much better after the dip, but died the next day. I didn’t see any flukes, but my dip was in a light colored bucket.

I think I am going to try a dip today in a dark bucket to check for flukes. If I see them, then treat the display tank. If I don’t, then move to copper QT tank and use the Kanaplex. All of the remaining fish are eating. Would it be better to soak the food or dose the tank with Kanaplex?

Never in a million years would hope for flukes, but here I am…hoping for flukes.
If it’s flukes, I should see something in the freshwater dip correct?

Actually, only Neobenedenia flukes can be seen in a dip with the naked eye. Other flukes are too small to be seen without at least a hand lens or dissecting microscope. Then, these small flukes look like little blobs of mucus, tough to ID

What I look for in fish after a FW dip is perhaps slight worsening of the symptoms in the first 24 hours, but them marked improvement ….

Jay
 
Upvote 0
OP
OP
W

winemanta

New Member
View Badges
Joined
May 2, 2023
Messages
14
Reaction score
14
Location
Central Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have been treating my tank with Prazipro (2 treatments - 8 days apart) as recommended and all 3 of my fish are back to normal. I wanted to thank everyone for the help - I had prepared myself for a total tank wipeout and am happy to say my sick fish are well again. Anyone have a suggested wait time before I add new fish? I’m not in a hurry and want to wait, just not sure how long I should wait.
 
Upvote 0

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
26,048
Reaction score
25,806
Location
Dundee, MI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have been treating my tank with Prazipro (2 treatments - 8 days apart) as recommended and all 3 of my fish are back to normal. I wanted to thank everyone for the help - I had prepared myself for a total tank wipeout and am happy to say my sick fish are well again. Anyone have a suggested wait time before I add new fish? I’m not in a hurry and want to wait, just not sure how long I should wait.
I always wait 45 days after dealing with a disease event to avoid issues with any relapse. Also, you should quarantine new fish anyway, you don’t want to end up with another infection in your DT if you can help it.
Jay
 
Upvote 0

Looking back to your reefing roots: Did you start with Instant Ocean salt?

  • I started with Instant Ocean salt.

    Votes: 161 74.2%
  • I did not start with Instant Ocean salt, but I have used it at some point.

    Votes: 17 7.8%
  • I did not start with Instant Ocean salt and have not used it.

    Votes: 35 16.1%
  • Other.

    Votes: 4 1.8%
Back
Top