Prodibio BioDigest Likely Has No Effect On Ammonia Oxidation and Does Not Help with Waste Reduction

[mmoner]

I guess the biomics site has enough reading for regular hobbyists like us, what about the real time population changes in a reef tank? so many variables thus possibilities.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think the naysayers of what aquabiomics is doing, either don't understand the technology and what it can and cannot do or have unrealistic expectations of how complex biology is and don't want to hear nuanced answers to the issues they seek to resolve.

Curious what "issues" you think knowing the species of bacteria present in a reef tank can be used to resolve?

I count myself as a naysayer if the purpose is anything other than curiosity of what bacteria are present in any given reef tank, or perhaps diagnosing a specific bacterial pathogen that is causing sick corals or fish. The technology is too early to be useful to most ordinary reefers, IMO.

 

[brandon429]

aquabiomics testing is in the top 4 ripoffs in reefing


sampling such a small representative area means nothing regarding disease, bacterial clades shown/missing etc. it's just buzzword sales

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Curious what "issues" you think knowing the species of bacteria present in a reef tank can be used to resolve?

I count myself as a naysayer if the purpose is anything other than curiosity of what bacteria are present in any given reef tank, or perhaps diagnosing a specific bacterial pathogen that is causing sick corals or fish.

I apologize if I misled anyone to think this technology at a "species" level can help hobbyists in any way other than what you are describing here. I think at the species level, the utility is exactly what you say to identify known pathogens of corals and fish. BUT this also requires nuance with interpretation as just because you have a known coral pathogen present in the tank, does not mean it is the cause of your sick/dying pets. This technology is sequencing genomic material, not culturing these microbiota or doing any assessment of viability so we can really only say for sure that the DNA of this organism was found in your tank (although you can make reasonable assumptions based on relative abundance of DNA plus/minus using some clinical/scientific judgement on the plausibility that its not just DNA contamination). Now in a clinical sense we can use the information that a pathogen was detected with the fact that our corals or fish are displaying characteristics consistent with the disease caused by the pathogen and make an educated guess that there is a causative relationship here.

I think there is also a potentially actionable utility in knowing overall microbial diversity of our tanks. Now whether Dr. Meyer's reference data of only 20 tanks is sufficient to say what is "healthy" for a reef tank or what is "typical" for a tank that is thriving, is up for discussion but at least he is transparent with his work and the data he bases his interpretations of the individuals' results. I would bet though, if he is a good steward for the hobby and science in general he is likely aggregating data and updating the reference for what is "normal" biodiversity in a reef tank.

The technology is too early to be useful to most ordinary reefers, IMO.

This I 100% agree with but would add that I think it is "too early to be useful to most ordinary reefers...as a first (or even second, third, fourth) tool in the toolbox when troubleshooting issues". Similar to 23andMe I think aquabiomics shares a responsibility to help the consumer understand their results and if they don't have the capacity to do one-on-one consultations with everyone then it should be clear to the consumer what their results mean and don't mean and what to do with abnormal results of unknown significance. As recommended for most direct-to-consumer tests, the consumer should follow-up on any abnormal values with someone qualified to interpret the data.

Unless I'm oblivious to this but I don't see aquabiomics marketing their service as "a requirement to keep a healthy reef tank" or a "solution to your reef tank problems". I'm sure they would agree a new reefer with a tight budget should stick to the basics, as would many of us. If someone was asking me if they should consider using the service I would simply ask what they expect to get out of the test and whether they are ok spending the money on the test knowing the results you get back might leave you in the same place you started.

I will admit I am biased towards just doing it because of scientific curiosity but only if someone has the money to do it for "fun". Just as I made my parents do 23andme with the health information because I was just curious.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

aquabiomics testing is in the top 4 ripoffs in reefing

the public has been tricked by a buzzword "DNA" and assigns validity to anything Eli claims even though the sampling has zero usefulness in reefing. anything associated with that test for cost is a sheer fleecing ripoff.

I think that is a little extreme, I know you have passionate opinions in this forum especially relative to bacteria and claims some companies make but I don't think this is a fair assessment of the company. I would be interested to hear your evidence why they are one of the "top 4 ripoffs in reefing". I also do not know "DNA" as being a buzzword, I will say that "microbiome" is more widely abused buzzword but I am not aware of any marketing of aquabiomics using these kinds of buzzwords to "scam" consumers.

sampling such a small representative area means nothing regarding disease, bacterial clades shown/missing etc. it's just buzzword sales and reefers want to send him their money, just like they want to buy 5 bottles of bacteria per cycle because Dr Tim said nitrite matters.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "small representative area" and "means nothing regarding disease". If you have evidence to support these claims please share, if not you are doing the exact thing you claim to hate about what these companies do.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Also sorry to OP (@mcgullen) I just realized this post was originally about Prodibio Biodigest and I'm just in my own world having off topic discussion. I'll blame it on my ADHD