Quarantine Problem - Flashing During Copper QT

SoFlo Reef

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Hi all,

I am having an issue with a midas blenny (and possibly others) in copper QT. I have quarantined quite a few fish over the years but haven't encountered this before. I purchased a fish that had supposedly gone through a full copper treatment, but that apparently failed and I inadvertently added what I believe was velvet (although possibly ich) to my DT.

I caught all of the fish and moved them to a QT with copper power @ 1 ppm. All 5 fish were given a 150 ppm peroxide bath en route to the QT to help knock off some of the parasites, presuming it was velvet. Copper power was ramped up to 2.55 ppm within a few days and fish have shown no signs of illness since reaching full dosage. Metro was dosed @ 25 mg/gallon day one of full strength copper.

At day 2 of full strength copper I added a new midas blenny to the QT. I had lost one to jumping prior and since I was already doing a full QT thought I may as well add that in. The blenny had been in copper at the LFS for a day or two so I added him straight in to full strength. All fish are active and eating well, but the blenny has been flashing at its gills since being added. Within 6-8 hours of the blenny being added I also noticed my clown and gramma flashing occasionally (much less than the blenny), also targeting their gills.

The following day I gave the clown and blenny a freshwater dip, and saw what could have been a couple of flukes come off, but not what I am used to seeing with infected fish. Fish were put back in QT and general cure was dosed. It has now been 48 hours since GC dosing, and the blenny is still flashing quite a bit (even more than before it seems). I will be dosing GC again in 7 days, but am trying to decide what to do in the meantime. All fish are still active and eating, and are being fed GC medicated food.

I am suspecting gill flukes, although I am wondering if it could possibly just be irritation from the copper/metro given that they haven't seemed to respond to treatment thus far. I am also wondering if gill flukes would spread quickly enough to notice other fish flashing within such a short amount of time after adding the blenny.

On hand I have General Cure, Prazipro, and Formalin (over 1 year old though). Normally I would dose Prazipro every 48-72 hours but with a fairy wrasse I am reluctant to do that, as they seem particularly sensitive to the liquid form.

I am leaning toward dosing formalin in tank @ 25 ppm to see if they improve, but am unsure of how that may interact with the metro remaining in the water, and how the formalin being over a year old would impact results.

Any suggestions/anecdotes are appreciated!
 

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Jay Hemdal

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SoFlo Reef Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:
  • Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
    • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
    • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
  • Current water quality measurements
  • Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).
If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:
 

vetteguy53081

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Hi all,

I am having an issue with a midas blenny (and possibly others) in copper QT. I have quarantined quite a few fish over the years but haven't encountered this before. I purchased a fish that had supposedly gone through a full copper treatment, but that apparently failed and I inadvertently added what I believe was velvet (although possibly ich) to my DT.

I caught all of the fish and moved them to a QT with copper power @ 1 ppm. All 5 fish were given a 150 ppm peroxide bath en route to the QT to help knock off some of the parasites, presuming it was velvet. Copper power was ramped up to 2.55 ppm within a few days and fish have shown no signs of illness since reaching full dosage. Metro was dosed @ 25 mg/gallon day one of full strength copper.

At day 2 of full strength copper I added a new midas blenny to the QT. I had lost one to jumping prior and since I was already doing a full QT thought I may as well add that in. The blenny had been in copper at the LFS for a day or two so I added him straight in to full strength. All fish are active and eating well, but the blenny has been flashing at its gills since being added. Within 6-8 hours of the blenny being added I also noticed my clown and gramma flashing occasionally (much less than the blenny), also targeting their gills.

The following day I gave the clown and blenny a freshwater dip, and saw what could have been a couple of flukes come off, but not what I am used to seeing with infected fish. Fish were put back in QT and general cure was dosed. It has now been 48 hours since GC dosing, and the blenny is still flashing quite a bit (even more than before it seems). I will be dosing GC again in 7 days, but am trying to decide what to do in the meantime. All fish are still active and eating, and are being fed GC medicated food.

I am suspecting gill flukes, although I am wondering if it could possibly just be irritation from the copper/metro given that they haven't seemed to respond to treatment thus far. I am also wondering if gill flukes would spread quickly enough to notice other fish flashing within such a short amount of time after adding the blenny.

On hand I have General Cure, Prazipro, and Formalin (over 1 year old though). Normally I would dose Prazipro every 48-72 hours but with a fairy wrasse I am reluctant to do that, as they seem particularly sensitive to the liquid form.

I am leaning toward dosing formalin in tank @ 25 ppm to see if they improve, but am unsure of how that may interact with the metro remaining in the water, and how the formalin being over a year old would impact results.

Any suggestions/anecdotes are appreciated!
Full strength copper and how are you measuring?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi all,

I am having an issue with a midas blenny (and possibly others) in copper QT. I have quarantined quite a few fish over the years but haven't encountered this before. I purchased a fish that had supposedly gone through a full copper treatment, but that apparently failed and I inadvertently added what I believe was velvet (although possibly ich) to my DT.

I caught all of the fish and moved them to a QT with copper power @ 1 ppm. All 5 fish were given a 150 ppm peroxide bath en route to the QT to help knock off some of the parasites, presuming it was velvet. Copper power was ramped up to 2.55 ppm within a few days and fish have shown no signs of illness since reaching full dosage. Metro was dosed @ 25 mg/gallon day one of full strength copper.

At day 2 of full strength copper I added a new midas blenny to the QT. I had lost one to jumping prior and since I was already doing a full QT thought I may as well add that in. The blenny had been in copper at the LFS for a day or two so I added him straight in to full strength. All fish are active and eating well, but the blenny has been flashing at its gills since being added. Within 6-8 hours of the blenny being added I also noticed my clown and gramma flashing occasionally (much less than the blenny), also targeting their gills.

The following day I gave the clown and blenny a freshwater dip, and saw what could have been a couple of flukes come off, but not what I am used to seeing with infected fish. Fish were put back in QT and general cure was dosed. It has now been 48 hours since GC dosing, and the blenny is still flashing quite a bit (even more than before it seems). I will be dosing GC again in 7 days, but am trying to decide what to do in the meantime. All fish are still active and eating, and are being fed GC medicated food.

I am suspecting gill flukes, although I am wondering if it could possibly just be irritation from the copper/metro given that they haven't seemed to respond to treatment thus far. I am also wondering if gill flukes would spread quickly enough to notice other fish flashing within such a short amount of time after adding the blenny.

On hand I have General Cure, Prazipro, and Formalin (over 1 year old though). Normally I would dose Prazipro every 48-72 hours but with a fairy wrasse I am reluctant to do that, as they seem particularly sensitive to the liquid form.

I am leaning toward dosing formalin in tank @ 25 ppm to see if they improve, but am unsure of how that may interact with the metro remaining in the water, and how the formalin being over a year old would impact results.

Any suggestions/anecdotes are appreciated!
The presumptive diagnosis for this would be gill flukes. Those are too small to see in dip water unless you use a microscope, and even then, they are a challenge to identify because the FW distorts them.

Copper won’t treat this - praziquantel or hyposalinity would be your best options.
 
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SoFlo Reef

SoFlo Reef

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The presumptive diagnosis for this would be gill flukes. Those are too small to see in dip water unless you use a microscope, and even then, they are a challenge to identify because the FW distorts them.

Copper won’t treat this - praziquantel or hyposalinity would be your best options.

I appreciate the reply, that’s what I was figuring, I’m just surprised there hasn’t been any improvement between the dip and GC dose.

General cure is Prazi/metro, so I was expecting to at least see some reduction in flashing. In the past I’ve had flukes make it through prazi, so the potential for resistance is what had me considering formalin but that may be overkill
 

Jay Hemdal

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I appreciate the reply, that’s what I was figuring, I’m just surprised there hasn’t been any improvement between the dip and GC dose.

General cure is Prazi/metro, so I was expecting to at least see some reduction in flashing. In the past I’ve had flukes make it through prazi, so the potential for resistance is what had me considering formalin but that may be overkill
Sorry - I missed that you had dosed with G.C.

Usually, fish with gill flukes and dosed with prazi will actually flash/scratch worse for a day or do after the treatment due to the tiny flukes dropping off which causes the fish even more stress. These open lesions usually heal in 48 hours or so and the scratching will abate if it is caused by flukes. Then, fluke eggs will hatch and reinfect the fish if you don’t dose again.
Other causes of scratching/flashing are less common: some gill protozoans (but copper would catch those), particles in the water (but you’d see those) and finally, it can be just a behavioral issue with no apparent cause (rarely see that though).
 
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SoFlo Reef

SoFlo Reef

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Sorry - I missed that you had dosed with G.C.

Usually, fish with gill flukes and dosed with prazi will actually flash/scratch worse for a day or do after the treatment due to the tiny flukes dropping off which causes the fish even more stress. These open lesions usually heal in 48 hours or so and the scratching will abate if it is caused by flukes. Then, fluke eggs will hatch and reinfect the fish if you don’t dose again.
Other causes of scratching/flashing are less common: some gill protozoans (but copper would catch those), particles in the water (but you’d see those) and finally, it can be just a behavioral issue with no apparent cause (rarely see that though).

Ok great, this is the answer I was looking for. I thought I recalled prazi being more immediate but it’s been a while since I treated a fish with flukes. He does seem to be flashing considerably less today. Thank you for the help!
 

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