Ready to quit the hobby; SPS or bust

[marinesnow]

It's an edge case theory.. but since everything else seems to be in order... You have palythoa in your tank, possibly the kind that contains more palytoxin than others. Julian did a talk about an incident where a small amount of palytoxin killed off the SPS in his tanks: .

Best of luck. I know what it's like to wanna throw in the towel in this hobby. You'll get to the bottom of it.

 

[spsick]

OP, you have a lot of responses and different opinions to wade though but it sounds to me like you’re doing everything right.

If you’ve added acros from that many different vendors so the corals aren’t the problem.

You have a tank big enough that should grant you a ton of stability that sps love.

Could your low nutrients be the problem? Sure, but I’m not convinced. You have fish and you feed them regularly same as me. I have 4 fish in a 75g full of acros. Could you benefit from shutting down the refugium and getting nutrients up a bit? Probably.

With corals up and melting in you, this feels like a chemistry issue. Couple questions:

How often are you changing carbon blocks on your RO? You are making probably double the water I am and I have to change my first carbon block every 2 months.

How much 2 part are you dosing? You mentioned tons of coralline (which is great) so I’m wondering about ionic balance with chlorides. I’m pretty sure ICP would show that, but the one you posted is tough to read without knowing all the element abbreviations.

If nothing else, a couple T5 bulbs could do wonders. It seems that blanket of light makes up for shortcomings by giving corals what they eat- light! I only say this because T5 has always made the difference in my success.

I’m sorry you’re experiencing this and I know how maddening it can be!

 

[yanetterer]

Maybe it is time to hire a maintenance company to provide consultation. Are there any good LFSs by you that either provide maintenance services or could refer you to one?

You get what you pay for and 30 different pieces of free advice may not be valuable. Many may be able to draw reasonable conclusions based on the information you have given, but we can only make conclusions based on the information provided. Having a professional come in and see the tank for a few weeks/months could result in them finding something that was overlooked by us, or that you may not have thought was worth mentioning here.

With the amount spent on the tank, I think it would be a worthy investment to spend a grand or two on having a professional get you on the right track rather than risk another big SPS order.

 

[City_Boy_Jay]

We’re at a crossroads in this hobby. More like, we’ve spent probably $25,000 on equipment and livestock in a 200g system and have very little to show for it. What we want is a tank filled with coral and life, but what we’ve done instead is lit 1,000’s of dollars on fire. It’s been 2-3 years now and while we can keep fish alive, coral survival is completely random. Most softies and LPS do ok, but that’s not bankable. However, basically not a single SPS or acropora has made it and that’s all we really want from our tank. Plating shelf corals, branching acropora, etc. that’s our goal.

It’s to the point we’re almost ready to be done with the hobby. Our tank could not possibly be more stable. Temperature, light, pH, alk, Ca, Mg; everything has been so consistent with Apex and Trident. But we spend $1,000 on SPS frags at a time, they survive anywhere from days to months, and then they all die eventually. At one point we had a really successful birdsnest in our QT; it grew like crazy, but the power went out for 12 hours and it all died, down to the very last frag and ever since all birdsnest corals die within a month. It’s beyond frustrating. We got MEN in QT that wiped out all monti’s; no matter how much we dipped and scrubbed the corals, it didn’t matter. The MEN survived and the corals died.

I feel like it doesn’t matter what we post here about our parameters. Someone will say “oh just do this or that,” or the root of everything is x, y, or z. I think this thread is a great example; before folks realized who @Roberto Denadai is and what he can do with corals folks kept chiming in with what he’s doing wrong and why it’ll never work despite his incredible success.

But fine, we’re at our wits end and have nothing to lose except more 1,000’s of dollars. We have a Red Sea XXL 750, it’s naturally a ULNS with nitrate running around 0.33 and low phosphate. We’ve been keeping Alk 7.65-7.7, Ca 430, pH 8.11-8.25, temp 77-78. ICP test is within normal limits all-around. We’re using AI Hydra lighting with a range of PAR’s but 150-300’s around our frag racks. Of note, our last batch of SPS corals survived 1-3 months before dying. We do battle cyano blooms at times; we’ve used chemiclean but mostly it just kind of waxes and wanes over time. Zero hair algae except in the sump.

So, where do we go from here? Will it take another $10,000, or another 3 years before our first acropora survives? Or, should we cut our loses, re-home our fish, and just be done with this whole thing?

Are you in Texas? I would like to take a look at the tank and see first hand. But a power outage is exactly that and pests or bacteria are pretty straight forward. I’d add more rock more bacteria fix any issues do an ICP test and talk to someone like me or others that are willing to help you

 

[Ashish Patel]

You're not alone. I've experienced the highs and lows firsthand, from nurturing a thriving 115-gallon SPS reef to facing challenges in a new 400-gallon setup plagued by stubbornly high nutrient levels. One common source of your frustration is the constant drain on finances.

Hold off on splurging on high-end SPS corals until a select few are flourishing and your tank is consistently thriving and you will know when its time! Based on your OP my gut tells me you may not be acclimates your corals to the light and your nutrients maybe too low for your corals to like. I've had acros rebound when put under very low Par. I think those numbers people suggest don't consider they are too high for newly cut corals or stressed corals. Once the corals are healthy they can take a lot more PAR. Reason why i add every new corals to the bottom for a week or so then bring them up over 1 month period.

Here are some suggestions:

1. Adjust Nutrient Levels: Consider elevating nutrient levels while dialing down PAR intensity. Aim for very low PAR levels, ideally 100 and under. Bring it up very slowly over 6 months only when you see corals are not stressed. Really observe each corals, this is a trait that is so underappreciated. More PE = More Healthy coral.
2. Explore Alternatives: Instead of fixating solely on Acros and Montis, diversify your collection with Zoas and LPS corals.
3. Embrace Stylos: Available in an array of pinks, purples, and greens. Far more resilient that Acros and honestly easy to read. once you see white growth tips your tank is ready.
4. Optimize Water Parameters: Maintain nitrate levels between 10-25PPM and phosphates between 0.05-0.20PPM. Avoid ultra-low nutrient approaches unless supplementing with amino acids and other coral foods, as SPS corals may suffer from stress and lack vibrancy.
5. Invest in Quarantine: Allocate resources towards setting up a secondary display tank, doubling as a quarantine system for new corals. This ensures added protection against potential issues.
6. Appreciate Your Fish: Celebrate your success in keeping saltwater fish thriving. It's a significant accomplishment in itself.
7. Maintain Detailed Records: Regularly test alkalinity (ALK) 4-5 times per week and nitrates/phosphates bi-weekly (for few months). Keep meticulous logs of every action taken in your reef system, from water changes to coral additions. This practice proved invaluable in my journey, allowing me to spot trends and pinpoint issues promptly. With Acros, timely intervention can often mean the difference between success and failure. Do not give up! You are already on the right track because your currently learning from your failures and going to grow because your focus is going to shift from livestock to water chemistry, acclimation, sourcing corals, and most importantly - patience. Success will come if you keep at it, I hope this helps, Good luck!

 

[Kactai]

No advice from me. I just want to offer some encouragement. You can do it. I know it feels like it’s been a long slog but it will make it so much more satisfying when you do achieve success.

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

Everybody kills SPS. Its not just your tank or the way you're doing things. I've long been over it and switched to lps and softies. Never test anything. Never dose in a 170 gallon system. I definitely keep up on housekeeping and water change at least once a month. I only run a skimmer a heater and gyres for flow. Sold all my automated dosing crap and Hanna testers. Now I'm actually enjoying this hobby. Pulled out my refugium and went bare bones.Got a few nice fish I couldn't keep with SPS and the tank is cruising along. The only thing I ever check is salinity and maybe once a week a little AB+ in there. There's a whole lot of cool things that can go in a tank that size that aren't acros.

No, everyone does not kill SPS. Many of us that are dedicated to the goal have a tank full of flourishing Acropora’s…

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

The obvious red flag for me is the zero phosphate measured by ICP. If I did that to my tank it would probably kill all 46 different Acropora’s pretty dang quick…
Also, make sure light is at about 300par for Acro’s, and make sure you have enough flow (in an RSR525xl I have 2x Nero 7’s, 2x Nero 5’s & 2 x Maxspect gyre xf350’s).

Way forward:
•Raise & stabilise nutrients to about 0.06ppm PO4 and 15 -20ppm Nitrates.
•Check lighting & flow is up to job
•Try 2 or 3 healthy frags from local reefers of something like a Tort, Montiporas… And cut them off the plugs and remount them before dipping. Get used to doing this with ALL frags. Having only a couple in there lets you watch them like a hawk. If you have a lot of Acro’s and a couple strip it can snowball with a chain reaction pretty quickly.

You CAN make this work

 

[thedon986]

No, everyone does not kill SPS. Many of us that are dedicated to the goal have a tank full of flourishing Acropora’s…

Wow you’ve never lost an SPS coral?

 

[AioGuy]

Ulns are not for beginners, you need to adjust alllk and lighting when doing so and takes some experience in noticing whats going on and just a little off on lighting and alk and an imbalance in nutrients and you get cyano and dead coral mostly sps. I would suggest to raise nutrients up a little to not starve coral in 300par low nutrients environment and keep everything else steady and wait a few months and see if elevated nutrients help!

 

[braaap]

I guarantee this is iodine, potassium, phosphate and nitrate in balance. Get those levels in the correct range and you’ll be great.

 

[Borat]

I guarantee this is iodine, potassium, phosphate and nitrate in balance. Get those levels in the correct range and you’ll be great.

Only dose quality Kazakistan potassium though - all other potassiums are made of chicken cr*p.