red sea reefers are not worth the cost

[dontbuyxenia]

No, I think if this tank was $800 new it would be a reasonable price. I bring up the new price because not everyone is going to get the same price for a used tank. Many people buy these things new, and I think comparing the utility using the new price is relevant. Personally, the price I paid is fine, but I wanted to start a discussion knowing many people buy these things new

So are you saying that the Red Sea Reefer 250 that costs over $1,800 new is not worth $800 used?

 

[dontbuyxenia]

For one thing, you can easily compare a stand, sump and display tank to an AIO. Red sea tanks only come with these 3 things, how is it not a worthy comparison? And also, it isn't beginner friendly, at least no more beginner friendly than putting a drilled tank together. And trust me, IM is not a steal either. I simply included them to indicate that there are other companies that do include other pieces. And the ATO should work with no hassle for an $1824 price point. When you are charging such a large amount of money for so little, everything should work reasonably well which the ATO doesn't. And if you use another ATO, it will likely have to sit outside of the stand defeating that minimalist look.

I disagree with all your points. are they expensive yes they are, so is almost everything in this hobby. If you want to compare them to other top brands like water box and Cade you will find Red Sea is the cheapest, most economical, beginner friendly option out there. What plug and play brands are out there? You compared it to IM how can you compare an AIO with a stand, sump, display tank?! I would rather have an ATO on the top of my tank rather than a ATO chamber built in into my sump like many of the water box models and not being able to use that space if I choose not to use it as an ATO chamber. If it bothers you that much you don’t need to use the included reservoir…
Also regarding the quality issues; if Red Sea is dominating the industry and has a large number of tanks out there then the number of faulty units is gonna naturally increase.
I am not related to Red Sea in any shape or kind but I see that what they provide is a hassle free, beginner friendly, economical option.

 

[Duncan62]

I own a lawn/landscape company and sure I could go to HD and buy a fleet of zero turns for 3k each but I also know those are in no way built the handle hundreds of hours every year. So I spend 8 to 10k per machine because repairs and down time would sink me. You get what you pay for. Going cheap will always cost you more in the end.

Concrete finishing and foundation. Owned track hoes, bobcats , and many finishing machines. Like you, equipment failure cost me money in lots of ways. I do agree with you 100% that 99% of the time you do get what you pay for. There are exceptions. I've paid more for a machine only to find a cheaper brand that was just as good. I still say if it's what you want and you like it it's a good deal.

 

[Dolphins18]

I agree with OP. The price point is obscene and surely there is a massive margin. To top it off, a whole community on leaking ones is not a good look. I love most red sea products, but ill stay away from their tanks.

 

[dontbuyxenia]

Red sea is overpriced compared to another tank with comparable water volume. I never said IM was cheap; I simply said they offered a few extra things for the cost as support for the idea red sea includes very little. As far as AIOs are concerned, you are paying for convenience, but in many ways they make things way more difficult.

Overpriced compared to what? You think IMs are cheap if your talking AIO? Are you comparing the price to a 40g breeder you threw together? Waterbox? Cade? As a business owner I have customers gripe over a $20 price increase of monthly service or say they got a quote cheaper all the time. My answer is always good luck and have a nice day.I hope they are licensed/insured and reliable. Businesses have overhead if you don't like the prices they certainly aren't going to change because you complained.. This is an expensive hobby and I would be more than willing to listen if you know of a comparable brand that is a better value. I went through this not long ago. None of them are cost effective over another brand when you start buying everything you need to be successful.

like I said, if you like the style then go for it. They are stunning tanks. But one 54 gallon tank that costs me $1800 is not going to make my corals or fish look any better than a tank from petco at a similar size.

 

[dontbuyxenia]

I have to say that I disagree with many of the points made by @dontbuyxenia, and I'm the farthest thing from a Red Sea apologist.

First, a complaint is made about the cost...but the OP didn't buy theirs for $1824. Why complain about the price of something that you didn't pay? And, as most of us know, going overboard on gear is something not exclusive to Red Sea owners. I can't speak to the situation in Greece (if OP's not in an American namesake city), but it's simply not going to cost you an extra grand to start up your RSR in North America. I bought a return pump off of Amazon for fifty bucks. And I'm not going to criticize Red Sea for not including lights, as that's standard industry practice. I'm using a couple of Primes that I bought used for $300 (for both). The total is still well under $500 CAD for extra equipment costs (lights and heater included).

Second, OP makes a number of complaints made about Red Sea's quality control issues that plague "all" owners. Well, theirs works fine and so does mine. We've all read the horror stories of the Parting of the Red Sea (seams), and it's a concern, but this happens to other tanks. It happened, as a matter of fact, to my first tank in 2005, and that was certainly not a Red Sea build.

Finally: ATO. Just get rid of the stupid small tank and use your own. It's a simple job. How is that a deal-breaker?

I have two Red Sea tanks now -- a RSM250, and the RSR350 -- and they both have irritating quirks, just like my other, non Red Sea tanks. I've ranted on here about my decaying RSM250, and have spent a lot of money getting it working, but that's what you get with a fifteen year-old AIO tank with a canopy when you buy it used. And Red Sea's customer service has been atrocious in helping me with issues with my RSM250 -- they don't even keep parts in stock! -- but none of the listed issues are novel or unknown. Red Sea tanks are fine for what they are -- and it's okay if you don't like what they have to offer.

1. Im complaining because I know other people will spend the full $1800 and I want to let them know the other side of these things. I have never heard a store say anything negative about the reefer tanks, and there are certainly things to address.

2. Used gear is not a good comparison. You could probably get a red sea system up and running for less than $1000 if you got lucky and searched long enough for stuff. But the average beginner is not going to be able to do that and if they are buying the tank to avoid searching for gear then they are certainly not going to do this.

3. For nearly $2000 the ATO should work perfectly. If they want to charge top dollar, then they need to deliver a top of the line product.

 

[Midrats]

I find the ATO elegant in its simplicity. A little blast of water into the inlet in the reservoir with a pipette occasionally keeps it flowing freely. The needle valve is an unnecessary weak link and not needed, I just removed it. Sure it only holds three days worth of water, but a small volume of water is safer. I'm at my tank everyday, it's not a problem to top it up.

 

[flashsmith]

Concrete finishing and foundation. Owned track hoes, bobcats , and many finishing machines. Like you, equipment failure cost me money in lots of ways. I do agree with you 100% that 99% of the time you do get what you pay for. There are exceptions. I've paid more for a machine only to find a cheaper brand that was just as good. I still say if it's what you want and you like it it's a good deal.

I have alot of high end accounts and I can tell you first hand that mower with the cheap stamped deck that was 3k cheaper isn't going to give the same quality cut of a higher end commercial unit. There are plenty of things to cut corners on. Equipment isn't one of them. Same can be said for reef tanks. I went cheap when I started and instantly regretted it because I spent double money for the right equipment I should have bought the first time. As for AIO. I have an SR80. Owned a lagoon 50 and I can tell you I was well North of 2k on the 50 and I'm well over 3k on the SR80. I also own a reefer 625 and gallon for gallon it's the cheapest yet overall and I'm running radion g5s on it. I'm still under 6k for that setup at 166 gallons water volume.

 

[Duncan62]

I have alot of high end accounts and I can tell you first hand that mower with the cheap stamped deck that was 3k cheaper isn't going to give the same quality cut of a higher end commercial unit. There are plenty of things to cut corners on. Equipment isn't one of them. Same can be said for reef tanks. I went cheap when I started and instantly regretted it because I spent double money for the right equipment I should have bought the first time. As for AIO. I have an SR80. Owned a lagoon 50 and I can tell you I was well North of 2k on the 50 and I'm well over 3k on the SR80. I also own a reefer 625 and gallon for gallon it's the cheapest yet overall and I'm running radion g5s on it. I'm still under 6k for that setup at 166 gallons water volume.

Once again. If your satisfied it doesn't matter what it cost. Absolutely correct about mowers. Long lifespan and quality of cut are obvious when these machines are compared. Same thing with other home owner equipment vs contractor grade machines. I've bought expensive systems back when the first wet/dry systems came out. I've also bought cheap petco tanks, built my own sump and prefilters and had the same quality or better at a fraction of the price. I have a very expensive Tunze skimmer that doesn't preform as well as one I got for less than 100 bucks. The cheap one us a year older than the tunze. I can get parts for the tunze and keep it running for 10 years. Or I can choose to buy 3 cheap o es for the same money? You have to take this into account. Most of us can't always afford the best when starting out.

 

[flashsmith]

As far as RS failures. They have the largest market share by a large margin. So yea your gonna hear things. I've heard plenty about WB particularly their customer service and poor quality.We've all seen the RS leaking threads but has there ever been an instance where they hung anyone out to dry? I know for a fact they have replaced plenty of tanks out of warranty no questions asked. Is there anyone else doing that? They had an issue and fixed it. As a consumer spending that kind of money that's important to me. Do you want to hear about my experience with Neptune on 3 month old equipment that failed? I'm still fighting them over a fried controller that costs $100...

 

[dontbuyxenia]

Oh don't get me started on Neptune. I don't own any of their products but most things I hear seem to not justify their price point. And I could care less about the tank, I care about my floors Im going to have to spend thousands to repair from water damage. I doubt Red Sea will pay for that. Not to mention losing fish and corals is really sad and frustrating. And the drain issue, from what I gather, is far more common and extremely annoying. And once again, you are paying nearly $2000 for a 65 gallon tank. The standard should be high. If it was $800 new, fine, but $1800?

 

[davidcalgary29]

1. Im complaining because I know other people will spend the full $1800 and I want to let them know the other side of these things. I have never heard a store say anything negative about the reefer tanks, and there are certainly things to address.

2. Used gear is not a good comparison. You could probably get a red sea system up and running for less than $1000 if you got lucky and searched long enough for stuff. But the average beginner is not going to be able to do that and if they are buying the tank to avoid searching for gear then they are certainly not going to do this.

3. For nearly $2000 the ATO should work perfectly. If they want to charge top dollar, then they need to deliver a top of the line product.

Well, yes...but you're addressing a group of aquarium enthusiasts who assumedly read other things than their own posts on this site.

Why can't we consider used gear? Few of us could afford any gear whatsoever if we had to pay MSRP every single time. The only reason I started up my builds again is because I could do so buying used equipment for thirty cents on the dollar of what it'd cost at a store -- RSR350 included. Perhaps some foolish folk spend their money sight unseen, but you can't save people from their poor financial decisions. But I admire your spirit.

And finally, the ATO does work perfectly, so I don't think it's fair to criticize that. I think it is fair to criticize the fact that it's small to the point of being almost completely useless.

 

[Saltysav96]

ive owned a many of tanks over the years
including a SCA 150g and a fiji cube 81G EXT

i recently bought a reefer 525 and i love it. stand is better quality then both the SCA And fiji cube. I love the provided leveling feet and the seam guards in the front corners. sump is plenty big.
the ATO is ok. i am still trying to figure that out as i do like the idea of not having an exterior ato box sitting next to the tank.
for me, this system was pretty much "PLUG AND PLAY" When it comes to the plumbing. i didnt have to cut PVC pipe, Figure out all the different angles and all that BS and then have to glue it all in.

i already had 90% of the equipment ready to go in so all i had to do was put in a short piece of hose from the return pipe to the pump and it was moving water.

i will also say,
THIS TANK IS SO MUCH QUIETER THEN ALL MY PREVIOUS TANKS WHEN IT COMES TO THE DRAIN.

 

[A Young Reefer]

The

For one thing, you can easily compare a stand, sump and display tank to an AIO. Red sea tanks only come with these 3 things, how is it not a worthy comparison? And also, it isn't beginner friendly, at least no more beginner friendly than putting a drilled tank together. And trust me, IM is not a steal either. I simply included them to indicate that there are other companies that do include other pieces. And the ATO should work with no hassle for an $1824 price point. When you are charging such a large amount of money for so little, everything should work reasonably well which the ATO doesn't. And if you use another ATO, it will likely have to sit outside of the stand defeating that minimalist look.

Then what companies do you think are better? What company provides you with an ATO that are not float valves? Do you expect them to provide you with a motorised unit?

 

[davidcalgary29]

The ongoing drain issues are a puzzle. Okay, my toilet doesn't gurgle, so I don't think that's a particularly apt comparison, but the downspout in my 350 sounded like someone had pulled out the plug from the bathtub when I first got it. The the issue went away. Why? I have no idea. Someone should do a study on this.

 

[dontbuyxenia]

Well, yes...but you're addressing a group of aquarium enthusiasts who assumedly read other things than their own posts on this site.

Why can't we consider used gear? Few of us could afford any gear whatsoever if we had to pay MSRP every single time. The only reason I started up my builds again is because I could do so buying used equipment for thirty cents on the dollar of what it'd cost at a store -- RSR350 included. Perhaps some foolish folk spend their money sight unseen, but you can't save people from their poor financial decisions. But I admire your spirit.

And finally, the ATO does work perfectly, so I don't think it's fair to criticize that. I think it is fair to criticize the fact that it's small to the point of being almost completely useless.

You cant use used gear as a standard for comparison. In many cases red sea may make perfect sense if you could get it cheaper. This is true with any product. When you talk about a car price you use the msrp as a benchmark. Especially since in order to have used equipment, someone has to buy it new at some point.

And your point about the ATO is self defeating. If it is useless, thats just as bad as it not working.

 

[Bato367]

I love my Red Sea Reefer. I bought it used as I couldn’t afford a new Red Sea, Cade, Waterbox, Elos etc. It’s an expensive hobby as are nearly all hobbies.

The glass clarity, glass overflow, beveling are all very nice. I appreciate the ATO. They could’ve not included anything at all?

Your arguments are your opinion but probably not fair to single out Red Sea. Their product pricing is on par with the industry.

 

[Ashy]

I like mine, yes it was expensive but I've never had an issue with the overflow I set it once and its been fine. Totally silent.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I'm going to disagree with almost everything you said.

1. Basically every fish tank is like that?

2. Lack of space? I have no problem fitting everything inside of it, including a Kalk Stirrer?

3. ATO I cant really voice my opinions on because I have an external ATO that holds 10 gallons, however when I had my 250 I never had a problem with it?

4. Personally I have never had ONE problem with either of the Red Seas I have/do owned. You also have to remember that more people will leave bad reviews then good (basic Marketing)....I'm not saying they haven't had their flaws but part of it is people not leveling their tanks properly as well.

 

[A Young Reefer]

For one thing, you can easily compare a stand, sump and display tank to an AIO. Red sea tanks only come with these 3 things, how is it not a worthy comparison? And also, it isn't beginner friendly, at least no more beginner friendly than putting a drilled tank together. And trust me, IM is not a steal either. I simply included them to indicate that there are other companies that do include other pieces. And the ATO should work with no hassle for an $1824 price point. When you are charging such a large amount of money for so little, everything should work reasonably well which the ATO doesn't. And if you use another ATO, it will likely have to sit outside of the stand defeating that minimalist look.

Also how are you saying that an AIO can be compared to a tank with a sump? Both have different purposes. Your points are beyond ridiculous. You want to bash a company then do a fair comparison with other companies, all of them are the same. Non provide a proper ATO or a full setup to “plug and play”.I had zero of the issues that you listed like so many other happy users.