reef All in one from tropic marin = all in one from salifert?

[Superlightman]

I did some research and found that salifert as a product that seems to be the same since 15 years.. Maybe is the reef all in one concept not so new? It seems to be a copy of the salifert product, or I'm wrong?

 

[Spare time]

Brightwell has a version of it too. Red sea also makes something similar but still it never seemed to have taken off. I am not sure why one has picked up over the other. I haven't found the salifert all in one to be widely available in the US.

 

[Superlightman]

I'm curious if there is something different with the tropic marin or not, because all this stuff look the same

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Tropic Marin product is calcium formate. The Salifert product is calcium acetate.

Functionality is similar (adds both calcium and alk), but there is more organic carbon dosing effect from the salifert product.

The salifert product should be easier to dose based on alkalinity measured 24 h after dosing since acetate is likely to be metabolized a lot faster.

 

[Superlightman]

thanks for this answer!

 

[User1]

Tropic Marin product is calcium formate. The Salifert product is calcium acetate.

Functionality is similar (adds both calcium and alk), but there is more organic carbon dosing effect from the salifert product.

The salifert product should be easier to dose based on alkalinity measured 24 h after dosing since acetate is likely to be metabolized a lot faster.

Very clear answer and well put. Thanks.

OP - I see you posted in the other TM AFR thread. I can't speak for Salifert, which is better, etc - I'll leave that to others. However, the one thing TM AFR has at the moment is the recipe to make it using their product base which lowers the cost. Later this year there will be a single powder version which is currently sold over in EMEA.

Not sure if Salifert has this yet or if it matters or makes a difference.

 

[Superlightman]

i just listen a video where tropic marin says that their product is also on a organic base,but more effective that acetate so maybe not so much difference

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

i just listen a video where tropic marin says that their product is also on a organic base,but more effective that acetate so maybe not so much difference

As I said, both are organics. There is no uncertainty in the main ingredient, but the other ingredients, such as magnesium or potassium, may vary.

"more effective" is an opinion that is presumably based on what effect you are looking for. lol

 

[Spare time]

Tropic Marin product is calcium formate. The Salifert product is calcium acetate.

Functionality is similar (adds both calcium and alk), but there is more organic carbon dosing effect from the salifert product.

The salifert product should be easier to dose based on alkalinity measured 24 h after dosing since acetate is likely to be metabolized a lot faster.

Any clue how long after dosing calcium formate would one be able to get an accurate alk reading?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any clue how long after dosing calcium formate would one be able to get an accurate alk reading?

Tropic Marin says it may take so long that they recommend dosing based off calcium levels, not alkalinity.

 

[User1]

Tropic Marin says it may take so long that they recommend dosing based off calcium levels, not alkalinity.

3 or 4 weeks for Alk to hold steady at least for me. I was switching over from ESV 2 part so had a known daily dose of both Alk and Ca products. I used TM's calculator / instructions to start my initial TM AFR dose and turned off my two part.

I noticed my Alk start to fall off over a couple days (trident user) so was able to start up the ESV Alk dose again but at a lower amount. Soon the two products balanced out and I was able to turn off the ESV dose and keep TM AFR. I think I was reading the DIY recipe thread and another one in the chem sub forum with a few of you discussing it and TM chimed in.

Not sure if it is the right way to do it but that is how I switched over. I like the single dose solution. I enjoy making it using the DIY product recipe. My tank seems to do OK with it. About the only thing that may or may not be related is that I have a pretty healthy Cyano issue at the moment. I'm also using their Bio Actif salt, first bucket, and it is a carbon dosing salt I guess (just learned the other week) so it lowers nutrients.

My Nitrates went to 0 according to the Nyos test kit so that could be the cause. In any case TMAFR seems like a decent product. Good company. Simple solution to dose. In the end is it better than say Kalk or other two part solutions that are a bit more affordable? Probably not.

Edit:

Their instructions:
Start with a daily dose of 5 ml of ALL-FOR-REEF per 100 litres (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume. Increase the daily dosage – by continuous monitoring of alkalinity – weekly by 2.5 ml per 100 litres (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume, until a constant carbonate hardness of 7 to 9 °dH is reached.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Edit:

Their instructions:
Start with a daily dose of 5 ml of ALL-FOR-REEF per 100 litres (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume. Increase the daily dosage – by continuous monitoring of alkalinity – weekly by 2.5 ml per 100 litres (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume, until a constant carbonate hardness of 7 to 9 °dH is reached.

FWIW, Lou Ekus of Tropic Marin recommends adjusting the dose based on calcum, not alkalinity:

All-In-One Ca-Alk-Mg Supplements, alkalinity testing, and how to use them

I understand from this post by Tropic Marin that All-In-One Ca-Alk-Mg supplements contain organic compounds that will eventually supply corals with Alk and Ca. For our purposes, this means you cannot detect an increase in Alkalinity using conventional test kits. At the moment I think, there are...

www.reef2reef.com

I have to agree that one day, or maybe even two, at the very beginning is a very quick, and maybe too inaccurate, way to determine how to adjust the dose. However, using the Ca level to "jigger" or adjust the dose is exactly how I prefer to do it. Then, if you see your Ca is running steady, but your alkalinity is loosing a little ground, you can just adjust every once in a while, with a small supplemental dose of your favorite carbonate addition. This is not necessary in most systems. But it does come up, once in a while, if the circulation, aeration, or CO2 is causing any imbalance in the Ca / alkalinity usage.

 

[User1]

FWIW, Lou Ekus of Tropic Marin recommends adjusting the dose based on calcum, not alkalinity:

All-In-One Ca-Alk-Mg Supplements, alkalinity testing, and how to use them

I understand from this post by Tropic Marin that All-In-One Ca-Alk-Mg supplements contain organic compounds that will eventually supply corals with Alk and Ca. For our purposes, this means you cannot detect an increase in Alkalinity using conventional test kits. At the moment I think, there are...

www.reef2reef.com

I have to agree that one day, or maybe even two, at the very beginning is a very quick, and maybe too inaccurate, way to determine how to adjust the dose. However, using the Ca level to "jigger" or adjust the dose is exactly how I prefer to do it. Then, if you see your Ca is running steady, but your alkalinity is loosing a little ground, you can just adjust every once in a while, with a small supplemental dose of your favorite carbonate addition. This is not necessary in most systems. But it does come up, once in a while, if the circulation, aeration, or CO2 is causing any imbalance in the Ca / alkalinity usage.

Thanks Randy.

 

[Midrats]

I used the Salifert product years ago. It worked well but when the demand increased the higher dosages cause heavy proliferation of bacterial mats and cloudy water so I discontinued using it.

 

[Superlightman]

Mmm I'm just think,I was using Ati essentials and I had all time cloudy water since I stopped it and used chemipur blue,the water is crystal clear. Ati is also an organic product ,maybe their is a link.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What product are you referring to?
ATI Essentials Pro two part does not indicate any organic ingredients.

 

[Superlightman]

Ati essentials pro , I read somewhere that they where organic based,don't remember where,I think it was in a german forum,but i don't know if it is true or not?I dosed also ati nutrition C àwich could be also the cause of it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ati essentials pro , I read somewhere that they where organic based,don't remember where,I think it was in a german forum,but i don't know if it is true or not?I dosed also ati nutrition C àwich could be also the cause of it

The ATI web site description does not make it sound like it contains any organics.

Essentials Pro - ATI North America

Essentials Pro Comprehensive care for your reef aquarium Dosing is easier than ever with ATI Essentials Pro Watch the video to learn more. More than a basic dose ATI Essentials Pro goes beyond your normal 2 part solution for your aquarium’s needs. ATI Essentials provides all of your aquarium’s...

www.atinorthamerica.com

 

[Superlightman]

The product was good,very easy and cheap,I doubt another product on the market are so cheap,but I was not really happy with the growth and colour of the acroporas, the other corals where ok.

 

[Superlightman]

The ATI web site description does not make it sound like it contains any organics.

Essentials Pro - ATI North America

Essentials Pro Comprehensive care for your reef aquarium Dosing is easier than ever with ATI Essentials Pro Watch the video to learn more. More than a basic dose ATI Essentials Pro goes beyond your normal 2 part solution for your aquarium’s needs. ATI Essentials provides all of your aquarium’s...

www.atinorthamerica.com

Can't find it also on the German webside, maybe the information was not accurate? I read also that they contain 28 traces elements vs 17 in the all for reef.