Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide
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External treatment knocks it back for a few weeks.
The cycle so far has been algae -> peroxide -> diatoms -> algae. I'm starting the 4th round of this. In-tank treatment delays the inevitable, but eventually it gets to be more than I can safely treat underwater.
I've been through so many bottles of peroxide that I've probably got a DEA case file hahaha
Ryengoth
I wish I was in St John USVI
What I meant to ask was what peroxide solution and dispensing method are you using and how are you applying it underwater.
OP
OP
and VBM that's really good detail, you seem to be more in the mass arrest phase vs the kill and stay gone phase (ideal)
are there any nutrient sinks you can think of, detritus -anywhere- that could be fueling the localized growth? sandbeds etc just wondering
also, regarding the technique of test rock work to be able to get a handle on a small section of the problem reef, have you ever hit a test rock externally w 35% and gauged that against the rest of the tank being done at 3%? it cannot be factored out. 3% only had strong growback of my red gelidium, like what you report. three rounds with 35% ive never seen it in about 8 yrs not once after about 3 spots @ 35% just adding brainstorm material.
trying to make a whole tank comply was the prior headaches we saw en masse from posters using any method including GFO or po4 issues and Tech M treatments to the tank etc.
getting a single test rock to comply, and not grow back, should be the most focused point IMO and I know you are still hitting the rest of the tank too to keep it compliant. all the changeups, new tests, etc should be all on test rocks so you aren't wasting too much time
Im not even saying if a test rock complies here or in the recent noncompliant tanks, that one could part out a giant reef and access it all 3x to make the comparative kill. Im only saying that we have to get a test rock to fully comply first and then brainstorm scaling that to the rest of the tank. without the test rock fully fixed and not growing back, we have only guesses to upscale to the main tank.
ya'll with giant reefs are quite the challenge. I do believe a single gallon has spoiled me fully rotten although I never get to see any cool fish.
are there any nutrient sinks you can think of, detritus -anywhere- that could be fueling the localized growth? sandbeds etc just wondering
also, regarding the technique of test rock work to be able to get a handle on a small section of the problem reef, have you ever hit a test rock externally w 35% and gauged that against the rest of the tank being done at 3%? it cannot be factored out. 3% only had strong growback of my red gelidium, like what you report. three rounds with 35% ive never seen it in about 8 yrs not once after about 3 spots @ 35% just adding brainstorm material.
trying to make a whole tank comply was the prior headaches we saw en masse from posters using any method including GFO or po4 issues and Tech M treatments to the tank etc.
getting a single test rock to comply, and not grow back, should be the most focused point IMO and I know you are still hitting the rest of the tank too to keep it compliant. all the changeups, new tests, etc should be all on test rocks so you aren't wasting too much time
Im not even saying if a test rock complies here or in the recent noncompliant tanks, that one could part out a giant reef and access it all 3x to make the comparative kill. Im only saying that we have to get a test rock to fully comply first and then brainstorm scaling that to the rest of the tank. without the test rock fully fixed and not growing back, we have only guesses to upscale to the main tank.
ya'll with giant reefs are quite the challenge. I do believe a single gallon has spoiled me fully rotten although I never get to see any cool fish.
Ryengoth
I wish I was in St John USVI
You're having the same issues with the increased oxygen and diatoms that I did, regardless of the carbon addition. Try the 2:1 blend of 3% h202 on a 2" area on 1 rock and take your time letting it soak into the mass of fibers. I drop a drop, watch it settle and start reacting and then move elsewhere. Go around the tank, bit by bit and hit those spots a few times with the 50ml I mixed. If it's dying off and growing back then your CUC is not keeping it trimmed close enough for it to actually die completely. Get more turbos, a bunch of ceriths and add a few lettuce nudis.
I have 5 growing in my breeder right now that are about 1/4" long for getting around coral and into small rock cracks.
I have a very thin sandbed (.5") that I manually stir before water changes and is constantly stirred by a very active diamond goby. I also take a powerhead and blow out the rocks. I added a 27w UV sterilizer (about 6 weeks ago) to hopefully kill spores.
I see the logic in what you're saying, but it seems to me it's all or nothing... seems like the other rocks will quickly seed algae to the 35% test rocks. I might try to source it locally and see what happens, though.
OP
OP
Good additions to your brainstorms for sure just to boost options
Ten gallon test tank lol! The test rock dwells in its own mini tank if one was handy, or a lighted bucket too. Yes even if main tank we still have a growback to assess against untreated portions even though that growback might be for sure eventually given the seed portions
even the CUC bumps can be nicely measured in a test bucket, these giant tanks I can't think of any other way than to get them into pico reefing briefly even as a fleeting assessment~
side note, is this the first retail additive to sell colored peroxide for a $$ higher than .75 cents a bottle? someone pointed out they recommend a 1:10 dosage (discovered solely by p dosers, not a lab or by research)
I say they pour some on a kitchen sponge, fizz = h202
http://reef2reef.com/threads/has-anyone-tried-this-product.238555/
if that is not peroxide in a bottle above, disregard, was merely a question on the interesting dose amnts and claims of clarification.
Ten gallon test tank lol! The test rock dwells in its own mini tank if one was handy, or a lighted bucket too. Yes even if main tank we still have a growback to assess against untreated portions even though that growback might be for sure eventually given the seed portions
even the CUC bumps can be nicely measured in a test bucket, these giant tanks I can't think of any other way than to get them into pico reefing briefly even as a fleeting assessment~
side note, is this the first retail additive to sell colored peroxide for a $$ higher than .75 cents a bottle?
someone pointed out they recommend a 1:10 dosage (discovered solely by p dosers, not a lab or by research)I say they pour some on a kitchen sponge, fizz = h202
http://reef2reef.com/threads/has-anyone-tried-this-product.238555/
if that is not peroxide in a bottle above, disregard, was merely a question on the interesting dose amnts and claims of clarification.
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You're having the same issues with the increased oxygen and diatoms that I did, regardless of the carbon addition. Try the 2:1 blend of 3% h202 on a 2" area on 1 rock and take your time letting it soak into the mass of fibers. I drop a drop, watch it settle and start reacting and then move elsewhere. Go around the tank, bit by bit and hit those spots a few times with the 50ml I mixed. If it's dying off and growing back then your CUC is not keeping it trimmed close enough for it to actually die completely. Get more turbos, a bunch of ceriths and add a few lettuce nudis.
I don't know about increase oxygen, but the diatoms after treatment certainly wear me out.
I'm get a good kill with external treatment, it just eventually returns. You're probably right, I should double or triple up my CUC. They just freaking annoy me, though haha... Those big Mexican Turbos seem to work best, but bowl over coral left and right. No amount of crazy glue can hold down an acro that's between one and his destination.
Ryengoth
I wish I was in St John USVI
I don't know about increase oxygen, but the diatoms after treatment certainly wear me out.
I'm get a good kill with external treatment, it just eventually returns. You're probably right, I should double or triple up my CUC. They just freaking annoy me, though haha... Those big Mexican Turbos seem to work best, but bowl over coral left and right. No amount of crazy glue can hold down an acro that's between one and his destination.
I watched 3 of those guys consume an entire sheet of seaweed.. each.. in like 10 minutes. O_O And they were STILL roaming around afterwards sucking up stuff. LOL I have like 5 large mexican turbos, a few smaller ones and some ceriths. I've noticed that I've got growth in my return section now so I've had to drop my lighting level back in the sump. It's growing TOO well in there. I'm having to clean the glass twice a week now instead of daily. I turned off the seagel and phosgard layers last night. We'll see what happens to PO4 levels tonight.
I would suggest a mini-reactor with seagel to help buffer the po4 and clean up dissolved carbons and see if your CUC can keep up between peroxide treatments. The 2" monsters I have can cover a sqft in like 20-30mins. If you buy more be sure to corral them periodically and feed them seaweed. Otherwise they'll end up dying under a rock somewhere and you'll have an unknown nitrate and po4 spike. I put them in my acclimator and toss in a couple sheets of red seaweed. The turbos and the tang love that stuff over green.
So I'm back to where I started. My algae battle started 2 y ago when I had a white film growing on the rocks and covering the overflow. At the time I was dosing carbon (nopox) and had zero nutrients and was mad to have that whitish film, so stopped dosing nopox and started to use GFO, as everyone was telling me that since I had algae I must have PO4 (even though it tested zero). The white film went away alright, but gave room to a full blown GHA outbreak which I tried to treat with two bouts of DinoX and ultimately went with peroxide.
Peroxide worked very good (you can see the results in this thread a couple of pages back) but a month or two after I again started to have GHA. This time I decided to go with the NOPOX again, because in the past it worked well enough (white film sure beats full blown GHA outbreak again).
Well, 4 weeks into nopox and the GHA started to turn white but I now have the white snooty stuff again!!!
Anyone knows what this is? It is almost transparent and has a snooty appearance. This is a iPhone pic with ambient light only
Peroxide worked very good (you can see the results in this thread a couple of pages back) but a month or two after I again started to have GHA. This time I decided to go with the NOPOX again, because in the past it worked well enough (white film sure beats full blown GHA outbreak again).
Well, 4 weeks into nopox and the GHA started to turn white but I now have the white snooty stuff again!!!
Anyone knows what this is? It is almost transparent and has a snooty appearance. This is a iPhone pic with ambient light only
Ryengoth
I wish I was in St John USVI
Looks like bacterial bloom from excess carbon. Stop dosing carbons. Add aeration to your overflow and turn up the skimmer. The nopox apparently binds phosphates to a carbon type. Then watch the growth over a week. Daily room air exchanges will also help with co2 gassing. Do you have the tank in a small room? Any air fresheners or oil scents near the tank?
Thanks Ryengoth. Nopox is just a carbon source to feed bacteria so it does not bind po4 per we. It is from Red Sea and smells a lot like alcohol. The tank is in the main room and is constantly ventilated. I did however cover the tank recently. In any event, I was pleased to see the GHA wither away and give way to this, that looks a lot like dinoflagellates?... Notice the air bubbles attached to some of the tips. Unfortunately I can not "turn up" my skimmer. I may have oversized it as it is a deltec SC 1455, suitable for a high stocked 800L tank and my tank is just 300L and low stock. So I was never able to have a foam head nor to produce decent skimmate...
Ryengoth
I wish I was in St John USVI
If you're not exporting the carbon regularly then you're going to continue having problems. Try packing activated charcoal in a reactor? It should be packed pretty tight to be effective.
Thanks! I do use carbon but in a mesh bag. I will try that as well
OP
OP
Strong oversized uv sterilizers are highly indicated in your flare ups VJV
It doesn't mean they have to run all the time permanently, but as an arresting tool they will work for you if sized correctly
The recommend is due to the invader having a water transition phase (growing on sides of tank non substrate) and having no holdfast system. If you clean the whole tank of it by hand and -then- install powerful UV I bet it works
All uv can be shopped on Amazon for the right seller, shipping and return policies known before purchase, and uv -tried- for 30 days in many cases at no loss to you other than restocking fees if it doesn't work. You can gauge efficacy within a week so this is something to consider for large tankers where full tank hand cleaning is hard to undertake
Uv won't remove items deposited but after thorough cleaning it's a decisive growback tool for dinoflagellate wars, cyano, this invader above and all kinds of non holdfast water transitioned invaders. If it was my tank I would only use UV rated for a pond, not an aquarium. This is war
I would mount the uv as out of the way as possible, burn this stuff clean, then keep it in the closet for next opportunistic hitchhiker invader round. To me, the invasion risks at play and the work it takes to run large tanks cleanly means UV would be requisite... at least as backup. I have used (recommended) UV custom fixes in several places on our linked peroxide threads. Did some cyano fixes in the reefcentral one, some invasive Dino fixes in the nano-reef.com one with oversized UV and on my own 75 gallon tank using pond UV array.
It doesn't mean they have to run all the time permanently, but as an arresting tool they will work for you if sized correctly
The recommend is due to the invader having a water transition phase (growing on sides of tank non substrate) and having no holdfast system. If you clean the whole tank of it by hand and -then- install powerful UV I bet it works
All uv can be shopped on Amazon for the right seller, shipping and return policies known before purchase, and uv -tried- for 30 days in many cases at no loss to you other than restocking fees if it doesn't work. You can gauge efficacy within a week so this is something to consider for large tankers where full tank hand cleaning is hard to undertake
Uv won't remove items deposited but after thorough cleaning it's a decisive growback tool for dinoflagellate wars, cyano, this invader above and all kinds of non holdfast water transitioned invaders. If it was my tank I would only use UV rated for a pond, not an aquarium. This is war
I would mount the uv as out of the way as possible, burn this stuff clean, then keep it in the closet for next opportunistic hitchhiker invader round. To me, the invasion risks at play and the work it takes to run large tanks cleanly means UV would be requisite... at least as backup. I have used (recommended) UV custom fixes in several places on our linked peroxide threads. Did some cyano fixes in the reefcentral one, some invasive Dino fixes in the nano-reef.com one with oversized UV and on my own 75 gallon tank using pond UV array.
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Brandon, I am receiving today a couple of SPS (poccilopora and stylophora) and want to dip the rock that they come attached to in H2O2(3%) for 5-10min. Do you believe this could damage the coral tissue that is close to the rock due to vapors or whatever that could be released during the chemical reaction? I will be holding the coral out so that the tissue does not touch the peroxide but if a little bit does touch would it generate some sort of RTN or STN?
Many thanks!
OP
OP
I routinely hit the base of my little sps frags w peroxide when I buy them from my lfs which is infected with a wierd brown spiky algae on the plug area...some 3% contacts the flesh and it only lightens that accidental contact area shortly, not much fanfare
Since you aren't dipping the corals I think they'll be fine... 99% of the coral can be kept free of peroxide and any accident contact should not spiral.
I even get 35% accidentally directly on lps flesh sometimes doing other preventative treatments and that dangerous mixture still doesn't cause any issues although I'm more careful with 35%
Since you aren't dipping the corals I think they'll be fine... 99% of the coral can be kept free of peroxide and any accident contact should not spiral.
I even get 35% accidentally directly on lps flesh sometimes doing other preventative treatments and that dangerous mixture still doesn't cause any issues although I'm more careful with 35%
OP
OP
nice thanks for posting~
one of the very coolest switch up tricks to do is to reverse the norm that people use with peroxide (dose to tank, invader dies and is exported eventually or uptaken)
clean the entire system by hand of the cyano, fully...a hard work run of a few hours detail
then do the dosing of peroxide such that there is no dieoff delay, or export time where components of dying targets are circulating in tank to feed targets not dead yet...the whole dose will go to growback prevention of miniscule amns of target...so little we cant even see any with a pic because you pre cleaned so well.
Not that experimenting with full tank doses in the typical manner is bad...that's what people want, the low work option and I like to see outcomes that range across tanks, mainly the predictable aspects of sensitive vs tolerant animals- we think we call those pretty well such that people can dose without unpredicted loss
but for absolute control over an invader, vs just dose experimenting to see if peroxide alone will fix X invader, the work factor cannot be skipped. Most all peroxide tanks are needing help due to literally farming an invader in the tank on purpose, we like to be opposite.
the hand scraping/cleaning/siphoning of the invader first, before any dosing runs, is restoring the hard work aspect which then amplifies the effects of the peroxide, we get less growback reinstating that work factor in challenge tanks
one of the very coolest switch up tricks to do is to reverse the norm that people use with peroxide (dose to tank, invader dies and is exported eventually or uptaken)
clean the entire system by hand of the cyano, fully...a hard work run of a few hours detail
then do the dosing of peroxide such that there is no dieoff delay, or export time where components of dying targets are circulating in tank to feed targets not dead yet...the whole dose will go to growback prevention of miniscule amns of target...so little we cant even see any with a pic because you pre cleaned so well.
Not that experimenting with full tank doses in the typical manner is bad...that's what people want, the low work option and I like to see outcomes that range across tanks, mainly the predictable aspects of sensitive vs tolerant animals- we think we call those pretty well such that people can dose without unpredicted loss
but for absolute control over an invader, vs just dose experimenting to see if peroxide alone will fix X invader, the work factor cannot be skipped. Most all peroxide tanks are needing help due to literally farming an invader in the tank on purpose, we like to be opposite.
the hand scraping/cleaning/siphoning of the invader first, before any dosing runs, is restoring the hard work aspect which then amplifies the effects of the peroxide, we get less growback reinstating that work factor in challenge tanks
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