Royal Gramma with Flukes? Fungus? HELP!!!

[Mariette]

I’ve got a royal gramma in qt w several other fish. All act and eat well. Gramma had this whiteness on its mouth soon after coming home. Assumed injury. Qt on day 3 of copper. But gramma now has white on one gill too. And what look like 2 little Flukes. Freshwater dip was not useful as he only lasted 2 min before going belly up and I called it off. No Flukes came off. He has been yawning though.

Temp - 77.4
Salinity - 0.027
PH - 7.5
NO2 - 5
NO3 - 80
Ammonia - 1

I realize ammonia is high and am doing a water change as we speak. It’s just taking longer than I’d like because I have to match copper levels and can’t use prime because I hear you can’t combine w copper?

I have a good collection of meds but am reluctant to pull the trigger because I don’t know what I’m dealing with. I’m thinking I should isolate him in his own qt? What meds would you use?

I know the pic is horrible. That’s all I could get for now. Lights off.

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Mariette]

#reefsquad. I’m panicking. Any suggestions would be appreciated

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Did you match your PH and temp with QT parameters for the FWD? 2 minutes won’t be effective.

I always start with FWD so I can eliminate flukes from The equation.

What are you treating in your QT currently? What other fish and how long have they been in QT?

 

[Mariette]

Did you match your PH and temp with QT parameters for the FWD? 2 minutes won’t be effective.

I always start with FWD so I can eliminate flukes from The equation.

What are you treating in your QT currently? What other fish and how long have they been in QT?

I did match temp but not ph. I use RODI water. While I’ve often read the advise about freshwater dipping all newcomers, I’ve always been hesitant of doing so because it seems incredibly stressful on the fish.

all fish are being treated prophylactically w copper. Then will get 2 rounds of prazi. All fish in qt have been in my possession for about 2 weeks. I qt them in batches. No one was showing signs of anything. He’s in a 55g qt w 7 other fish:
- fairy wrasse
- flasher wrasse
- Yellow wrasse
- blue star leopard wrasse
- stripped blenny
- engineer goby
- oscellaris clown
- royal gramma

 

[LAReefer4Life]

It’s not nearly as stressful as it seems but you must do it correctly. PH and temp must both match for it to work.

What is your copper reading currently? What are you using to test?

 

[Mariette]

It’s not nearly as stressful as it seems but you must do it correctly. PH and temp must both match for it to work.

What is your copper reading currently? What are you using to test?

Copper is at 0.5. Full dose. I can’t get the Hanna checked where I’m from. I use the Seachem test kit. With the colour matching grid. cupramine for copper. I know the general concern on here is that they’re not the best test kits but I’ve found them to work well once you get the hang of it.
I’ve had Flukes, ick and Velvet in the past. This doesn’t seem like any of them.

 

[Pbh-reef]

Can you get a clearer picture?
Try not to panic- first cause it won’t help and second because if the fish is eating you’re not in bad shape. (Always easier to say don’t panic than to regain your calm)

Also I agree about trying a dip again with more attention to ph, but give the fish a day to recover.

 

[Mariette]

Can you get a clearer picture?
Try not to panic- first cause it won’t help and second because if the fish is eating you’re not in bad shape

I’ll try tomorrow because lights are out for the night. But he’s pretty shy to begin with and I’m afraid today’s dip won’t help with the trust. You think I should pull him into a separate qt? I’ve watched too many fish die due to misinformation and stupidity on my part and I just can’t stand to lose another one.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Getting the ammonia down is priority one.

You mentioned that they are all eating well so that’s a good sign. You could add furan + kana + metro + focus to bind meds to frozen fish food while treating in copper. Then follow with treating Prazipro as you initially intended. You could also add garlic guard, zoecon, selcon to boost immune system.

Plus it’s hard to diagnose with the photo you posted. Maybe post some more
When you get a chance?

 

[Mariette]

Getting the ammonia down is priority one.

You mentioned that they are all eating well so that’s a good sign. You could add furan + kana + metro + focus to bind meds to frozen fish food while treating in copper. Then follow with treating Prazipro as you initially intended. You could also add garlic guard, zoecon, selcon to boost immune system.

Plus it’s hard to diagnose with the photo you posted. Maybe post some more
When you get a chance?

Thank you.

Ammonia down - absolutely right. I just managed to get a bucket of water to proper copper dose and it brought it down to 0.5. Still not ideal but I’m hoping it will be gone with another bucket.

I have something called general trio. Has Kanaplex, Metroplex and Furan-2. I have focus. I do use garlic guard and vita Chem in feedings once a day. I feed twice a day.

I’ll stalk him tomorrow and try for better pics.

 

[Pbh-reef]

If the gramma is eating I wouldn’t think
Pulling him is needed. That said if there’s ammonia in the tank adding more
Bio filtration like biospira and sponges is a good idea. A better pic will help with diagnosis. Basically I agree with @pathot984

 

[LAReefer4Life]

I’d be more concerned about the ammonia level vs appropriate copper level. That’s me. Either add beneficial bacteria such as biospira or conduct another large water change.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

 

[Mariette]

I’d be more concerned about the ammonia level vs appreciate copper level. That’s me. Either add beneficial bacteria such as biospira or conduct another large water change.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Thank you. Im definitely in agreement re the ammonia.

 

[Pbh-reef]

Also- I’ve read that copper can make ammonia test kits read false positives so people suggest using the seachem ammonia badge in a qt with copper

 

[Mariette]

Also- I’ve read that copper can make ammonia test kits read false positives so people suggest using the seachem ammonia badge in a qt with copper

Interesting. I’ve heard the same thing about the seachem badge. I actually have the badge on there and it was giving a clean reading. I tested and came up w ammonia.

 

[Mariette]

Got some pics this morning. Gills look much better. Could it be that there were Flukes and they fell off and I just didn’t see them?

Happy to say he was acting normal this morning

 

[Mariette]

The white on his mouth doesn’t appear to be a growth. Just discolouration. That’s why I initially suspect injury. But then the gills got a bit inflamed looking, one side of the gills looked a bit whitish, and he was yawning. So...I’m stumped

 

[Pbh-reef]

Interesting. I’ve heard the same thing about the seachem badge. I actually have the badge on there and it was giving a clean reading. I tested and came up w ammonia.

For ammonia this thread makes me think would trust the badge over a test kit when copper is present, especially if fish were not exhibiting signs of ammonia poisoning-

Which (if any) Ammonia tests work with Copper/Coppersafe?

Wasn't sure if I should ask this here, or over in @Randy Holmes-Farley 's chemistry forum... I know treating with copper/coppersafe messes up some ammonia tests, but are there any that can be used (in my case with Coppersafe)? I have a Seachem Ammonia badge, but I noticed it says "freshwater"...

www.reef2reef.com

Grammas yawn as a display of aggression, which could be the reason in your case. I’m not able to tell from the photos of the whiteness is an infection - maybe some one else can help there.

 

[Mariette]

For ammonia this thread makes me think would trust the badge over a test kit when copper is present, especially if fish were not exhibiting signs of ammonia poisoning-

Which (if any) Ammonia tests work with Copper/Coppersafe?

Wasn't sure if I should ask this here, or over in @Randy Holmes-Farley 's chemistry forum... I know treating with copper/coppersafe messes up some ammonia tests, but are there any that can be used (in my case with Coppersafe)? I have a Seachem Ammonia badge, but I noticed it says "freshwater"...

www.reef2reef.com

Grammas yawn as a display of aggression, which could be the reason in your case. I’m not able to tell from the photos of the whiteness is an infection - maybe some one else can help there.

Hahahaha Humblefish’s comment
“The only liquid ammonia test kit I am aware of which works with copper is Seachem's ... BUT only if you are also using their Seachem Cupramine product.”
I happen to be using Seachem’s cupramine w a seachem liquid copper test kit

 

[Mariette]

Ooookayyy so I noticed today that the gills on 1 side (the effected side) are clamped. Other side is fine. Still acting normal. Eating. Bit shy when I approach the tank. Territorial w fish.
Also, my flasher wrasse, who yesterday was swimming actively and eating like a pig, is laying in a hole, breathing rapidly, and it’s tongue is visible through its constantly opening and closing mouth. It did not eat today for the 1st time since I’ve had him.

Ammonia levels testing at 0.25 after yet another 50% water change but I understand this may be due to the copper interfering w the test.
Rest of fish appear fine.
What can I possibly do now?
Please help. I get really attached to my fish and I can’t handle this. I’ve been on top of my chemistry every night after the kids go to bed. Daily water changes w matching copper and ph is exhausting. I’ll do whatever it takes. I need something. Anything. I’m desperate.