Skimmers and Refugiums - Equally Efficient at Nutrients Exported?

[dangles]

Do these methods of nutrient export pull out nitrate and phosphate “equally”?

In other words, does a skimmer pull out more nitrate than phosphate? Or the reverse? Same question for refugiums.

The reason I ask is that I’m having a bunch of trouble getting my nitrates up, but my phosphates are in the 0.2 neighborhood. Tank is mostly fish with a few corals and is less than 6 months old. I’m currently running a fleece roller, and just recently started a refugium. The fuge seems to have stripped my nitrates and not touched my phosphate. I’m trying to decide if I should increase the photo period on my fuge to address the phosphate, or add start up the skimmer I have on standby… or something else entirely. Start dosing nitrate? Add more fish? Reduce feedings?

Obviously lots of variables. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[TX_REEF]

algae turf scrubbers are great for phosphate reduction.

 

[Pistondog]

Refugiums pull out more nitrates than phosphates as that is how macro algae consumes them to grow.
Skimmers pull out a less predictable mix, based on the organics in your tank. For example when we heavily dosed phytoplankton, a lot of the skimmate contained phyto, which dictated the nitrate to phosphate ratio exported. If you feed a lot of phosphate rich foods, then these leftoveds and what passes thru the fish, would make up your skimmate.
J run both and believe they ard complementary.

 

[cdnco2004]

You fuge is for nutrient extraction, where the skimmer is more like physical filtration as it is removing dissolved proteins out of the water.

 

[00W]

Do these methods of nutrient export pull out nitrate and phosphate “equally”?

In other words, does a skimmer pull out more nitrate than phosphate? Or the reverse? Same question for refugiums.

The reason I ask is that I’m having a bunch of trouble getting my nitrates up, but my phosphates are in the 0.2 neighborhood. Tank is mostly fish with a few corals and is less than 6 months old. I’m currently running a fleece roller, and just recently started a refugium. The fuge seems to have stripped my nitrates and not touched my phosphate. I’m trying to decide if I should increase the photo period on my fuge to address the phosphate, or add start up the skimmer I have on standby… or something else entirely. Start dosing nitrate? Add more fish? Reduce feedings?

Obviously lots of variables. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

Skimmer pulls out neither but rather helps pull out crap before it becomes either.
Make sense?
It also helps oxygenate the water.
You have a lot going on reducing nutrients.
In my experience, reducing phosphate is harder than reducing nitrate without using gfo. Gfo can easily take phos to zero.
Since you really want a balance of both, I'd shut down the roller for a bit.
With the skimmer, roller and fuge it'll be hard in that sized tank to have any nitrate at all. You're stripping the water clean.
Phosphate leaches from substrate, rocks. Gets added in with food, etc. Your level isn't really that high and a healthy fuge will stay on top of it it just takes longer to see results.
Hope that helps.
Everything you do has to be done slowly.
I've never added nitrate/phosphate so can't speak there I've always tried to go down not up.
Turn off skimmer and roller for a bit and let it ride, test in a week see where you're at.

 

[twentyleagues]

You've been given good advise above. I would use a combo approach or a little from all the posts above.
I dont run mech filtration except a skimmer, I do have an area I can put floss in should I feel the need to remove particulate matter. I have done it twice since I set this tank up 3 months ago. I used mech in my big system years ago only on the output of my display fuge just to catch any errant pieces of algae. Currently my display drains directly to my fuge any wasted food or other matter should be handled by the critters in the fuge. After that I have my skimmer. If my phosphates get to high I'll use a little gfo to combat it. Your fuge will use phosphate but not a lot so you really cant rely on that. Skimmer will pull proteins out of the water before they break down (stated above). Your mechanical and fuge is stripping your nitrate or you are feeding stuff that is higher in phosphates then nitrates (end product) like flake and pellets. Look at what you are feeding maybe a change there can help cut your po4 and increase your nitrate without resorting to pulling mech and using gfo. Frozen foods dont contain the amount of raw phosphate that dry foods do so very little is produced during its "break down". Adding dry foods immediately has an effect on phosphates before the fish/corals even eat it.

 

[dangles]

Lots of great insight. Thank you everybody.

Sounds like the initial path forward is to hold off on starting up the skimmer, reduce the fuge photo period, adjust my feedings a little, and possibly add GFO. I may also turn off my fleece roller for part of the day too. I have run GFO in the past with success but man I hate swapping it out, and it isn’t cheap

Thanks again everyone.

 

[dangles]

Skimmer pulls out neither but rather helps pull out crap before it becomes either.
Make sense?
It also helps oxygenate the water.
You have a lot going on reducing nutrients.
In my experience, reducing phosphate is harder than reducing nitrate without using gfo. Gfo can easily take phos to zero.
Since you really want a balance of both, I'd shut down the roller for a bit.
With the skimmer, roller and fuge it'll be hard in that sized tank to have any nitrate at all. You're stripping the water clean.
Phosphate leaches from substrate, rocks. Gets added in with food, etc. Your level isn't really that high and a healthy fuge will stay on top of it it just takes longer to see results.
Hope that helps.
Everything you do has to be done slowly.
I've never added nitrate/phosphate so can't speak there I've always tried to go down not up.
Turn off skimmer and roller for a bit and let it ride, test in a week see where you're at.

Regarding GFO, my understanding is that it becomes saturated or “used up” pretty rapidly. Am I correct in that?

I can start with small mesh bags to avoid overdoing it. I used that on my last (first) tank. But I also have a manifold built in to my plumbing. I could install a small reactor eventually and be able to fine tune the throughput. Would that be overkill? I assume the ability to gate back the flow through it would give me the flexibility I would need with it?

 

[00W]

Regarding GFO, my understanding is that it becomes saturated or “used up” pretty rapidly. Am I correct in that?

I can start with small mesh bags to avoid overdoing it. I used that on my last (first) tank. But I also have a manifold built in to my plumbing. I could install a small reactor eventually and be able to fine tune the throughput. Would that be overkill? I assume the ability to gate back the flow through it would give me the flexibility I would need with it?

Yes gfo will exhaust quickly if levels are high. If used properly you can maintain phosphate at levels you are comfortable with. I find it works best in a reactor, tumbled gently, start slowly, use less test often.
I rarely use it and if I do only small amounts.
You have the right idea using the manifold to run a reactor
Like I said don't over do it. Go slow.
I've taken my nitrates from 60 to 17 over 10 months, slowly.
Joel

 

[dangles]

Yes gfo will exhaust quickly if levels are high. If used properly you can maintain phosphate at levels you are comfortable with. I find it works best in a reactor, tumbled gently, start slowly, use less test often.
I rarely use it and if I do only small amounts.
You have the right idea using the manifold to run a reactor
Like I said don't over do it. Go slow.
I've taken my nitrates from 60 to 17 over 10 months, slowly.
Joel

Which reactors do you have experience with?

I was looking at the cheap BRS ones. There’s a standard size and small size. Any idea if I can just under fill the standard size one?

Or is there a better option?

 

[00W]

Which reactors do you have experience with?

I was looking at the cheap BRS ones. There’s a standard size and small size. Any idea if I can just under fill the standard size one?

Or is there a better option?

Those are what I have.
They're easy and work-no BS.
Small one should be fine.
I have the taller ones and they're fine.
Gfo needs a tumble so doesn't matter the size unless you are using a giant amount, which you won't be.
You can also get extra/spare fittings at home depot, etc to customize it however you want.

 

[jda]

They do different things. Skimmers catch things in the early/mid term and growing algae can get some waste products after they have gone through everything else.

IME, multiple skimmers can lower waste products a bit. Algae does a better job at keeping them stable. Skimmers work regardless of other things - like if traces get low and algae stops growing.

Skimmers can also remove harsh metals that bind to organics (most come from food). Skimmers also do a great job with gas exchange.

I would run both if you have the capability.