So let's try some yeast!

[Flippers4pups]

Sorry for the delay. Me and the wife have been helping move the our oldest daughter into a new apartment all weekend. Been hectic.

Diatoms are diminished, but some are still around. So, the yeast helped, but definitely didn't get rid of them.

Now, three things going forward can happen:

1) continue the yeast treatments for another week.....

2) try another way, possibly "vibrant"?

3) pull the sand bed and replace it.

Other possibilities are add another DI chamber as well to help control incoming silicates.

 

[fermentedhiker]

As an avid brewer I have trouble thinking brewers yeast is capable of activating in salt water. From the yeast website regarding adding salt to bread dough;
Salt has a retarding effect on the activity of the yeast.The cell wall of yeast is semi-permeable, and by osmosis it absorbs oxygen and nutrients, as it gives off enzymes and other substances to the dough environment. Water is essential for these yeast activities. Salt by its nature is hygroscopic; that is, it attracts moisture. In the presence of salt, the yeast releases some of its water to the salt by osmosis, and this in turn slows the yeast's fermentation or reproductive activities. If there is an excess of salt in bread dough, the yeast is retarded to the point that there is a marked reduction in volume. If there is no salt, the yeast will ferment too quickly. In this sense, the salt aids the baker in controlling the pace of fermentation. Nevertheless, we should note that a careful usage of yeast, control of dough temperature, and the type, maturity, and amount of preferment used are better tools for fermentation control. Salt quantity, as we have noted, should stay within the 1.8–2% range.

I can see how the yeast would be food for corals although to do so would usually require you to active the dry yeast in fresh water and then add it to the tank. The decomposing yeast could indeed fuel some sort of bacterial/microbial activity but not sure how that would relate to diatom viability.

 

[taricha]

So, the yeast helped, but definitely didn't get rid of them.

Now, three things going forward can happen:

1) continue the yeast treatments for another week.....

2) try another way, possibly "vibrant"?

3) pull the sand bed and replace it.

Other possibilities are add another DI chamber as well to help control incoming silicates.

I mean sure, you can try to do what's best for your system, but your audience is here to see you put yeast in a reef tank.

 

[kecked]

Can you take some water and diatom rock to say a 10gal and let it grow by adding Si and Fe. Now add EDTA to the water and see if they die. It will strip the ions. If this works we might find a way to selectively remove the iron to reduce the bloom and then add it back as needed once the diatoms are done. I’m thinking of those selective ion filter media for wastewater. This isn’t an approach for the tank but could prove the connection.

 

[kecked]

Maybe the yeast is just a catalase bag and a you are doing is releasing oxygen radicals like peroxide ....

Very far fetched idea but if the yeast don’t hatch in saltwater that could happen and the iron changes oxidation state and precipitates?

 

[Flippers4pups]

As an avid brewer I have trouble thinking brewers yeast is capable of activating in salt water. From the yeast website regarding adding salt to bread dough;
Salt has a retarding effect on the activity of the yeast.The cell wall of yeast is semi-permeable, and by osmosis it absorbs oxygen and nutrients, as it gives off enzymes and other substances to the dough environment. Water is essential for these yeast activities. Salt by its nature is hygroscopic; that is, it attracts moisture. In the presence of salt, the yeast releases some of its water to the salt by osmosis, and this in turn slows the yeast's fermentation or reproductive activities. If there is an excess of salt in bread dough, the yeast is retarded to the point that there is a marked reduction in volume. If there is no salt, the yeast will ferment too quickly. In this sense, the salt aids the baker in controlling the pace of fermentation. Nevertheless, we should note that a careful usage of yeast, control of dough temperature, and the type, maturity, and amount of preferment used are better tools for fermentation control. Salt quantity, as we have noted, should stay within the 1.8–2% range.

I can see how the yeast would be food for corals although to do so would usually require you to active the dry yeast in fresh water and then add it to the tank. The decomposing yeast could indeed fuel some sort of bacterial/microbial activity but not sure how that would relate to diatom viability.

Here's what @jason2459 did and surprisingly it did grow in saltwater.

Here's the link: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diatoms-and-yeast-dosing.259744/

The white paper on the scientific research of bakers yeast and their effect on marine Diatoms showed that the yeast was out completing the Diatoms in Fe uptake, thus reducing or eliminating them in seawater.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I've contemplatied going forward and have arrived at a conclusion, based on this:

In the week dosing yeast, the numbers of Diatoms have been reduced by 3/4 in my system. This is of course a eye ball estimate and not scientific. So, it's improved.

The health of the system has been stable. Fish, corals and inverts look and act normal. Corals actually look better, yeast- food. "Rust" color has disappeared in the sump. Skimmate looks light tan, but skimmer is pulling out more now.

Water pramameters have stayed stable and all well within acceptable limts. Yeast in my system hasn't effected water quality. Water clarity is very good to exceptional.

So, with all that I'm.......going another week dosing yeast. Week two, starts tomorrow!

 

[kecked]

http://www.princeton.edu/~cebic/chelbindintro.html

Diatoms and iron and maybe how the yeast affect the situation. We sure put plenty of iron in our systems with gfo

 

[Flippers4pups]

http://www.princeton.edu/~cebic/chelbindintro.html

Diatoms and iron and maybe how the yeast affect the situation. We sure put plenty of iron in our systems with gfo

In the open ocean, iron is low and Diatoms struggle to up take it.

So, yes. In our small systems, Fe can be more abundant and so can silicates.

 

[kecked]

What I found interesting was the natural cheating compounds. These sequester iron In a form bacteria and other stuff can pull in. I’m looking for the root of why it works. Yeast might not be needed but these compounds instead so an extract can be be made. Maybe try dead yeast and see if it works

 

[mcarroll]

Now, three things going forward can happen:

1) continue the yeast treatments for another week.....

2) try another way, possibly "vibrant"?

3) pull the sand bed and replace it.

Other possibilities are add another DI chamber as well to help control incoming silicates.

I'd say that if you're interested to continue for at least another couple of weeks to see what happens....this is potentially still the beginning if anything is actaully changing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What I found interesting was the natural cheating compounds. These sequester iron In a form bacteria and other stuff can pull in. I’m looking for the root of why it works. Yeast might not be needed but these compounds instead so an extract can be be made. Maybe try dead yeast and see if it works

I can discuss that at length, if you want. But I'm not sure what the purpose would be? Are you trying to make iron more or less bioavailable, and to what organism?

 

[kecked]

Maybe both. Depends but it could be a way to control a parameter. Science vary one thing at a time and observe. EDTA removes but is none selective. Some of the organic complexes are more selective and can either make the metal available and or skimable. When I get a chance I’ll send you conversation rather that futz up this one.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe both. Depends but it could be a way to control a parameter. Science vary one thing at a time and observe. EDTA removes but is none selective. Some of the organic complexes are more selective and can either make the metal available and or skimable. When I get a chance I’ll send you conversation rather that futz up this one.

Here's a recent thread where folks can continue any wanted discussion of iron bioavailability. My introduction gives quotes from a recent paper on what is known:

What forms of iron are bioavailable?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what-forms-of-iron-are-bioavailable.368832/

 

[Rick Gaas]

Any updates?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Any updates?

The verdict, at least for me was it worked. It wasnt overnight and didn't completely eradicate them in total, but did drive their numbers down significantly. The rest was time and good husbandry. I would do it again if needed.

 

[Trueruby]

I've contemplatied going forward and have arrived at a conclusion, based on this:

In the week dosing yeast, the numbers of Diatoms have been reduced by 3/4 in my system. This is of course a eye ball estimate and not scientific. So, it's improved.

The health of the system has been stable. Fish, corals and inverts look and act normal. Corals actually look better, yeast- food. "Rust" color has disappeared in the sump. Skimmate looks light tan, but skimmer is pulling out more now.

Water pramameters have stayed stable and all well within acceptable limts. Yeast in my system hasn't effected water quality. Water clarity is very good to exceptional.

So, with all that I'm.......going another week dosing yeast. Week two, starts tomorrow!

I would like to hear some updates about using yeast. And how you dose it per week?

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

I would like to hear some updates about using yeast. And how you dose it per week?

I haven't contributed to this thread at all, but have been following along for a long time. After reading, and doing some of my own research, I decided to start dosing yeast myself. I've been dosing for maybe 6-8 months now, 1-2 times a week but at higher levels than this thread originally stated. I have a 150 gallon display, 300 gallon total system volume and I dose about a full teaspoon at a time. I originally started doing it for some diatoms, however I keep doing it as a form of coral food, or coral food additive. My coral do seem to have slightly better coloration since I started dosing so I have kept up with it as it is very cheap to do. Even on a several hundred gallon system the cost is <$1/month.

I can say that I don't visually have a diatom issue any more, and haven't for a while but to be fair I am also taking other measures to keep other algae at bay that may be a contributing factor in that. I dose vibrant once a week for algae control, and maintain a fairly low nutrient system Nitrate ~5ppm and phosphate ~0.03ppm. I do a light scrubbing of my exposed rock every week or two as I have no clean up crew in my tank, and have started doing monthly 30% water changes. I use 25 micron filter socks 24/7, but actually recently switched to 3 micron socks (I know, ridiculous) and have noticed the glass needs cleaned less frequently and the sandbed is a bit more white.

I think the main takeaway from my situation may just be that dosing larger amounts of yeast does appear to be safe for a reef aquarium. I have a wide range of coral in my tank and have not seen any issues with any of them as a result of dosing yeast.

 

[Trueruby]

I

I haven't contributed to this thread at all, but have been following along for a long time. After reading, and doing some of my own research, I decided to start dosing yeast myself. I've been dosing for maybe 6-8 months now, 1-2 times a week but at higher levels than this thread originally stated. I have a 150 gallon display, 300 gallon total system volume and I dose about a full teaspoon at a time. I originally started doing it for some diatoms, however I keep doing it as a form of coral food, or coral food additive. My coral do seem to have slightly better coloration since I started dosing so I have kept up with it as it is very cheap to do. Even on a several hundred gallon system the cost is <$1/month.

I can say that I don't visually have a diatom issue any more, and haven't for a while but to be fair I am also taking other measures to keep other algae at bay that may be a contributing factor in that. I dose vibrant once a week for algae control, and maintain a fairly low nutrient system Nitrate ~5ppm and phosphate ~0.03ppm. I do a light scrubbing of my exposed rock every week or two as I have no clean up crew in my tank, and have started doing monthly 30% water changes. I use 25 micron filter socks 24/7, but actually recently switched to 3 micron socks (I know, ridiculous) and have noticed the glass needs cleaned less frequently and the sandbed is a bit more white.

I think the main takeaway from my situation may just be that dosing larger amounts of yeast does appear to be safe for a reef aquarium. I have a wide range of coral in my tank and have not seen any issues with any of them as a result of dosing yeast.

I am glad to hear about your updates. I have a 100 gallon in total. So I think halt of the tablespoon may enough. Do you add some sugar also? I also had diatom algs but it turned to some dinos now. What I think is my beneficial bacterias losing the compete against dinos because they are not feed it enough. So I hope to feed them so that they can win the battle.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

I

I am glad to hear about your updates. I have a 100 gallon in total. So I think halt of the tablespoon may enough. Do you add some sugar also? I also had diatom algs but it turned to some dinos now. What I think is my beneficial bacterias losing the compete against dinos because they are not feed it enough. So I hope to feed them so that they can win the battle.

Just to be clear, I use a teaspoon, not tablespoon.

I have added a small amount of sugar before, but most of the time I don't.

I did have dinos before that were bad, but are mostly gone now. I get a little here and there from time to time, but nothing worth complaining about. I fought mine initially by adding a few bacterias and dosing vodka and peroxide at specific intervals over a 2 week period. Forget the name of the method, but was made up by a guy named Cruz. For me, it initially was very promising and got rid of maybe 90% of my dinos (ostreopsis, though I'm sure that's spelled wrong). I ended up doing the method twice which helped more, but after a month or so they did start to come back. I ended up feeding more, and started dosing Vibrant twice a week for 10 weeks which finally got it under control along with scrubbing my rocks weekly before each vibrant dose. I don't know if dosing yeast has/had anything to do with my dinos, but I never noticed any direct correlation between the two.